they just dont give a *** about pvp. when was the last time they did anything new for pvp. This is supposed to be a faction war expansion. The new things the made are afk warfronts without any pvp and warmode where you toogle on a button to gank flightpaths.
In BfA? I mean, if nothing else, then they added 2 new Arena maps. And to my awareness thereâs a re-make of Arathi Basin and Warsong Gulch coming in the next patch.
So even if you just look at content alone, PvP does get something each and every expansion.
Letâs not portray the PvP community as victims here, thatâs silly.
2 arena maps is as much work as 1% of a dungeon. Remakes of years old maps? But its true. Any respectable pvp player has long left and plays a moba or shooter or battle royal game
Arena maps 1% of the work? I donât think so.
Just look at BEM arena or the orgrimmar ring thingy. If you half-#ss a map, theyâre gonna suck.
But like I said before: It goes back to the PvP community.
If you ask a lot of high-end PvPers, then they arenât asking for more maps â theyâre asking for the removal of existing ones they consider annoying.
Some PvPers would be more than happy if Arena was reduced to only Nagrand Arena, because thatâs what they consider to be the best map.
Iâm sure Blizzard wouldnât mind throwing more development resources at PvP, if it paid off. But it doesnât. Because every time they add something to PvP, then the PvP community throws a hissy-fit about it.
Take Ashran in WoD. Itâs probably the biggest development undertaking for PvP ever. And how did the PvP community respond to it? They named it Trashran and launched a witch hunt against the PvP designer!
Such negative reception and dismissal of content is naturally going to result in Blizzard being reluctant to devote resources toward PvP, because the reception is guaranteed to be negative every time. So theyâre better off devoting those development resources toward PvE instead, where the players are a lot more positive and happy about the new content they get (see Battle for Dazarâalor).
For sure pvp is harder to develop for than pve because you actually have to not only provide interesting content, but it has to be fair as well. Noone ever asks the dungeon bosses whether they like dying so much. Its obviously easier to stick to PvE, which blizzard has done in wow for some time. Then players will switch to games that actually develop for pvp players (some seem to manage just fine to earn billions with pvp content). This might be the best way for pvp players and blizzard. Everyone gets what he wants
And yet this has been WoWâs formula since TBC (arguably classic too except the dailyâs were extremely few and not really classed as dailys).
100% agree and have been asking for precisely this for years.
Also, youd have to include options to play against grouped individuals versus solo joiners if you want to fix pvp
1 Like
This is complete nonsense.
First, the foundation of the game is not the story and lore. The game is not built on them. The game is built on gameplay. Namely, on PVE as well as on PVP and side activities. Story and lore are merely background for gameplay.
Second, allowing PVE and PVP groups to be cross-faction will not destroy the story and lore. Two factions cooperate with each other in the story and lore all the time. Allowing cross-faction groups is completely natural. Itâs disallowing them that is illogical.
Third, unlike cross-faction groups, which do not destroy the store and lore and actually happen to be logical (even though it does not matter much whether they are logical or not, see point 1) - the store and lore actually do get destroyed by Blizzard constantly due to whatâs universally referred to as âbad writingâ. They constantly go for whatâs supposed to feel âepicâ vs what makes sense, they constantly underthink the events and this all takes a toll.
The phrase in the quote is complete nonsense.
2 Likes
Ah thatâs a fair point, when put like that its just a case of grin and bare it until the devs step in.
What youâre trying to sell here is the idea that I should be able to goof around in Orgrimmar as an Alliance player, and party with the other Horde players there, because Iâm grouped up with some Orc dude in The Barrens.
Blizzard will do stupid things every now and then, but they will never do something like that for the sole purpose of trying to fix faction balance.
I mean, talk about bringing an axe when you need a scalpel.
Considering that Blizzard are trying to drive a narrative of conflict and war between the Horde and the Alliance, what youâre suggesting is in complete opposition to that end.
In reality noone gives a **** about horde vs alliance. players have to be bribed with 400er items and bonuses to even fight the opposite faction. In BGs people oppose players with russian names instead of horde or alliance. All it does is creating long BG queues and imbalances in warmode, raiding guilds and m+. Blizzard than is trying to repair those imbalances with solutions like kill quests and further alienates the players.
1 Like
Because it was crap. You are asking people to praise garbage, and in your mind when they donât it must be something wrong with them. Take other recent additions to pvp, and you will see they werenât met with outcry or being called trash, when they were actually ok: Tigerâs Peak arena, Ashamaneâs Fall arena, Black Rook Hold arena, Deepwind Gorge bg, etc. - none of these were negatively met.
If you would stop refusing to open your mind to what people say, you would see a pattern of what is generally met negatively in the pvp community:
- dumbing down of classes and reduction of gameplay options;
- being made to do some sort of PvE mode to get BiS pvp gear;
- zerg vs zerg battlegrounds or zones (though these also do have their fans), and more importantly the addition of BiS pvp gear obtainable only from them. Nobody would have minded Ashran if it wouldnât have had the idiotic lootboxes with BiS pvp trinkets in there;
- RNG PvP gear, and generally speaking anything that determines character power through luck;
- too long time taken to fix blatant imbalances, bugs and whatnot in PvP.
Say what you will, but this is not an unreasonable list of complaints. Developers are simply out of touch way too many times, and keep making changes almost nobody in the PvP scene likes, which is why they are met with the negative reception so often.
2 Likes
Itâs the foundation of the franchise as a whole. Even when World of Warcraft is dead and gone, Warcraft will still continue to exist â just as it did before there was anything called World of Warcraft.
And at its center, Warcraft is about Horde vs. Alliance. That is the anchor of the franchise. Trying to dismiss that as if itâs unimportant or a nuisance is nonsensical.
No Iâm not. Iâm saying that itâs natural for Blizzard to devote its content development resources toward areas where it makes sense. And it does not make sense to devote them toward PvP when the PvP community is a cesspool of negativity that seems to have little interest in new content. The PvP community maintains a stronger focus on everything that is wrong with the content that currently exists, to the extent where it even seems to express animosity toward new content.
Itâs much easier and less complicated to just make another raid or dungeon then, which you know PvEers will welcome with open arms and be happy about.
If you wouldnât, then why give that example for? If the quality of the PvE content they make would be as low as Ashran was, they would see the same negative response from PvErs. In fact, they do! I donât see the happiness and praises of Warfronts or Island Expeditions. The difference is that there is a tried and true recipe in PvE that the PvE community likes, and crucially that the devs stick to it, while they modify PvP contrary to the wishes of the PvP community.
They are out of touch. That is their problem.
1 Like
No, it is not. People play WoW because it has PVE and other things. Not because of the story of random races pretending to do things that matter. We time traveled, space traveled, everything was turned on its head a hundred times. The most popular motive of the so-called lore is a lore figure duping players into helping them then going âha-ha-ha, I am actually evilâ, etc. Nobody at large cares about this nonsense that just keeps piling up and nobody at large even keeps track much. You can replace the Burning Legion demons with furries and itâs going to be fine. You can split one of the factions into two-three parts and itâs going to be fine. You can merge factions together and itâs going to be fine as well.
Lore and story are not the foundation of anything. They are in the game merely as background. They are completely malleable and have been bended over a hundred times already.
And the irony is, in the case of cross-faction groups, lore and story do not even have to be bended. Cross-faction groups are NATURAL at this stage. Itâs the absence of them that is unnatural.
But I am not sure why I am writing any of this, because you are just going to ignore everything and continue to mumble the nonsense about foundations.
Eh?
The guy said that Blizzard hadnât done anything for PvP.
Then I pointed out that all things being equal there were 2 new Arena maps introduced in BfA.
Then he said that 2 new Arena maps didnât amount to very much.
Then I said it might have something to do with the fact that itâs risky business for Blizzard whenever they add something new to PvP, because the PvP community can sometimes be rather negative in their response. I used Ashran as an example of Blizzard surely having learned that lesson.
Then you said that Ashran was actually crap and I was suggesting that players should praise garbage.
Then I said that I was just implying it was natural for Blizzard to devote their content development resources toward areas where it makes sense in regards to the player response.
And then you said why I even used Ashran as an example if it wasnât because I was suggesting that players should praise garbage.
And then I made a post â this post â trying to clarify why I used Ashran as an example: Not as a way of saying that players should praise garbage, but as a way of saying that Blizzard must be aware that making new content for PvP is not without risk of backlash from the PvP community.
And you kept missing the point: no content is without risk of backlash, but if someone wants to reasonably mitigate that risk, they can try to understand what the community it is intended for wants from content. Otherwise, we get Ashran, Island Expeditions or Warfronts.
Then we fundamentally disagree. Nothing more to say, I guess.
Weâll see if Blizzard decides to take the path you encourage in order to fix faction imbalance, or if theyâll choose not to, as I encourage.
Time will tell.
I thought that was my point? 
PvE content = small risk of backlash. The community generally welcomes any new content addition with open arms.
PvP content = high risk of backlash. The community generally appears sceptic toward any new content addition.
Thatâs how I see it at least.