5 man dungeons are now oficially dead. I tried BFD 4 times, collected all quests, and every single time ppl just run past everything including the stone crate for the manuscript, and nobody cared about anything. I am not the beggar type, but in the last run I even asked the group that can we kill that few (3-4) naga, so I can loot the quest item. No response, they just blindly rushed forward.
I understand that ppl don’t care about the game as and rpg, don’t care about others, only themselves, but this is painfully saddening, that we finally reached the level of ignorance of retail. Well, I guess I will just level up the char to 80, come back, and solo the dung to finish all the quests.
This was a only a long and depressed prolouge. Just to present how far the game has worsened.
My proposal is that the term optional boss should be erased, therefore those who actually enjoy playing the game, not just ruhing over it, can have a fun time.
Because with this skippin 9/10 of every instnce at least 1/3 of the dungeons lose their meaning of existance.
Blizzard, only you can save the game, don’t make the same error twice.
Because with RDF people dont care about quests or anything else. and RDF itself is the true problem, and it is the point when “classic” became “retail”. Before WOTLK launch blizz said that they have no any plans to add RDF in WOTLK because of this, but people continued crying on forums to add RDF, so you got what you deserved, retail 2.0.
This is what happens when you have in your skull instead of brain. You make up stupid b******t and believe everything that Blizzards tells you.
The real reason why people are skipping is because of +50% XP buff. You can skip many quests because of that, even the ones that don’t require dungeon to complete. And the real reason why they didn’t implement RDF from the starts is to make people buy boost.
You really think OP would have found an at level group for BFD in wotlk classic before LFD? Get real. Even on the fresh servers during prepatch when everyone was leveling it was impossible to find groups for any but the most efficient dungeons, of which BFD is not one.
We have seen how the leveling environment without RDF was like before its release. It was more or less dead. There were very few leveing dungeon runs even on high pop servers and even then it was primarily easily accessible dungeons. Wotlk is much faster paced and endgame oriented compared to vanilla. While in vanilla its worth traveling far and wide to do every dungeon, history has proven, that in wotlk the same interest to do leveling dungeons does not exist for the major part of the community. Especially at times with lower activity, on a lower pop server it can be impossible to manually find a group for a specific dungeon, before you outlevel it yourself.
I am not against RDF, I want to clairfy it very first, because it is a tool. The same way as they say “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”, the exact same thing, it’s the confusing mindset of people who use this is the problem.
Blizz never said you have to skip the 90% of the game (as an off thought, if your goal to skip the majority of the game’s content, why do you play it in first place?), it’s us, the players, who abuse the system.
And this is why Blizz needs to step in, if they care about the game. I used BFD as an example, because it was a fresh wounf in my WoW immersion, but ther are many more instances that fall into the same description. Gnomeregan, Maraudon, the most infamous BRD, but the upcoming Halls of Origination will suffer the same fate. And it’s sad, because it had interesting boss mechanics, but nobody will care, because minmaying is more important than enjoying the game itself.
In my opinion, this is usually caused, like it has been said here, by just rushing the final to get the xp bonus for completing. Which is also a very easy way to prevent this - if in a RDF group (as to not force those 2 people worldwide that might be interested in making a group specifically for one boss), let the final spawn only after previous bosses have been killed (or give him immunity until they are killed or do any of another 146 technical measures to reach the goal).
Partially your issue will be taken care of by Cata itself - dungeon quests givers will be spawned at the entrance, therefore everyone will have motivation to actually run the whole instance. Thing is, not-easily-replaceable roles (aka tank, healer) that do the instance for the 2nd / more time might just not give a crap about the rest of the guys…which brings us back to how to force it.
Just from the top of my head, it would “fix” several dungeons - if we’re talking Cata (which, if considering Halls of Origination, we are):
BFD (some things, mostly quest ones, can be skipped)
Stockade (possible to skip whole one wing)
Uldaman (if not questing, people used to skip 75 % of the instance)
Zul’Farak (getting people to do the !! 1 !! extra boss used to be a pain)
Maraudon (Earth Song Falls)
Scholomance ((if not questing)
Blackrock Caverns / Throne of the Tides / Grim Batol (which all used to have one boss skipped)
Halls of Origination (which ended up only seeing two bosses killed - the control room one + final for VP bonus).
Might have forgotten some.
Halls of Origination might actually not suffer as much at the start of the expansion - there are 4 skipable bosses, 3 of which almost don’t require any running or trash to kill though and yield JP, which might not be a bad motivation, at the beggining at least, to kill them.
Overall, I agree - it’s the people that skip what they can, not the RDF…meaning that they’ll either get forced to do the instance or the skipping will always be an issue - in which case it’s again gonna get hard for people to do the whole instance unless playing tank / healer.
There’s no pact, deal, bargain, etc…, only every ppl who joins RDF looking for his own benefit.
And clearly you see the benefit aimed for everyone is ending the dungeon as fast as possible, no matter if you need anything else.
So if you want a bargain with anyone you will have to give something.
What do you think about looking a guild to do content in a smooth way?
Ofc, my real fix for your problem is to remove completely the RDF and make the ppl be usefull for every other groupmate. And also make possible realms jump without payment.
The “extra xp” thing is pretty much what happened in original Cata - every boss gave about the same amount of XP as the final one, so there was at least that (unlike at least low lvl dungeons now that have bosses yielding same xp as regular elites). Thing is…the RDF bonus was still too high for people to give a damn.
Also…iirc, some new dungeon difficulty system has been announced. Guess we’ll just have to see how exactly it works…though I suppose that will be a matter of lvl 85 dungeons, not the lower ones we’re discussing now…
First, I agree, it’s very different from the culture during even (early?) Cataclysm. I used to do full BRD clears in RDF! Something has created a skip culture.
Second, as a tank people tend to follow me around. Those who don’t often end up bored and leave.
Third, my solution back in 2009 when I was doing Loremaster was to form the group in the chat - you can still use RDF, except it’s SDF for specific
I got a lot of boosts, too. The OP being 8 days old I don’t suppose offering my services makes much sense, but. (My tag is 2120, you can find out the name!)
Fourth, rewards aside, RDF enabled a special type of Loremaster where you level in dungeons and solo the world - and when you get to a dungeon, you solo that.
I like your proposal, it increases clarity on the objectives, but it doesn’t work well retroactively and it’s a recurring retail design anyway. Plus, some quests aren’t bosses
I sympathize with you OP, the struggle to get quests done and clear dungeons fully is a Sisyphean one.
First of all for some commenters ITT, if there was no RDF, the OP wouldn’t be running ANY BRD runs, incomplete or otherwise, that much was proven beyond any doubt in phases 1-3 of Wrath Classic.
Now for the topic, simply said, your best bet as always is to form the group yourself, if you write you are starting a dungeon quest group in trade, lookingforgroup or local zone where some of the dungeon quests are, you would be surprised how often people whisper you that they wanna join. Especially if you remind them that you can just port in once assembled.
Even if you don’t gather a full group, as long as you have someone willing to tank, you can just “kidnap” any other members form RDF and simply inform them you are taking a scenic route.
Also, speaking goes a long way. I know you just had a terrible experience in bfd, but you admitted yourself that you only spoke up once in one of the runs.
When I levelled as dps and couldnt find anyone in chat channels, I’d just queue with a pre-written message like "Hello, I have such and such q here to do this and that. It gives nice xp and reward, can we please do it? (optionally also you can share it with them). I was surprised that in many, more than half runs for sure, several other members answered they also have it, or that sure, they don’t mind doing it. You’d be surprised what a bit of communication amd not sounding bitter or passive aggresive can do.
Basically, if you want stuff done, you have to do all the legwork and organising and pushing and pulling yourself, like everything in life. But you can get people to help if you are nice, persistant and stern about it and still do most of it yourself. Like in life.
in your skull instead of brain. You make up stupid b******t and believe everything that Blizzards tells you.
