I was unaware of this though once again we’re in the category of niche. If you’re grouped with a shaman and a paladin, the group will not make use of it. Imagine if it was something along the lines “increases all ticking damage” then every class has a dot of some sorts.
Again, in theory you’re not wrong but in practice we’re seeing different data. A grip can be amazing to the point of making an encounter trivial, and that’s a weakness and a strength.
I think this is where many voices differ in their expression, I’m personally not advocating for having something similar to some other class. But I firmly stand by having a more universal use in our utility. Like I said above, a stamina buff or a health stone are always useful. And we can even go by your own otherwise correct observations, control and zone denial. Make those better still.
AMZ based around DK health is wrong, as it creates this odd dynamic between bdks and the rest. The argument to make GG a DK talent over a BDK one would be sick, AL although really thematic is often clunky and unreliable. These fundamentals got to be improved and made more reliable. Maybe there’s a version of the talent tree that blends “Grip Of The Dead” and “Death’s Reach” into one better talent that’s more accessible.
Whatever the changes may be, there just needs to be some.
I’ve played DK since Wrath of the Lich King in November 2008. Not sure how that’s relevant, but there it is.
Right now, I’m pushing past +10s on this character, and I might end up agreeing with you if I start running into real issues. But so far, it hasn’t been a problem. I get invited just fine—both as Blood and Unholy.
I agree that Death Grip can be replaced by good positioning, but most groups don’t play that tightly. In pugs, Grip can keep a minor mistake from ruining a cleave. That one caster just out of reach? Grip brings it back in. Want to interrupt a few extra casts? Grip helps there too. It’s not a “must-have,” but it’s more than fluff.
I also agree that this particular raid tier hasn’t given DKs a clear moment to shine. But that doesn’t mean the class is in bad shape overall.
If Grip could apply a debuff to ungrippable targets, similar to Hunter’s Mark...
That’s a strong idea. I’d be behind something like that.
I’m personally not advocating for having something similar to some other class.
This is where we differ. If DKs were to get a group or raid buff, I’d want it to match the power and utility of others. Think back to when Shamans were the only class with Bloodlust/Heroism. Eventually, we got Time Warp, Primal Rage, Fury of the Aspects—it spread across multiple classes and made groups more flexible.
If DKs were to get something, I’d rather it be passive—like the +3% spell crit aura from Moonkin. Druids already “compete” for the battle res slot anyway, so something quiet but useful like that would fit better than giving us a headline raid cooldown just for the sake of it.