Please blizz the extra stat is not an issue and it makes pvp gear viable.
I currently have 5 different sets. 1 for single target bellow 59 cr 1 single target bellow 39 cr 1 for aoe bellow 39cr 1 bellow 59 cr and a pvp set.
As you can see you have failed in making me wear a single set so please please give us a pvp stat!
You cannot be so blind to not see this issue. This will be terrible please do not break the game again for us.
5 Likes
I think the difference between wearing multiple sets now, is that you’re nit-picking between different secondary stats and Corruption effects in order to optimize. But your character isn’t useless if you just have one all-around set. All the secondary stats and all the Corruption effects are decent for everything.
With a PvP stat like Resilience or PvP Power it’s a bit different. Your character will in fact be useless if you’re trying to do PvP without a full set of PvP gear with PvP stats.
And on the flip-side, if you try to do PvE in your PvP gear with all its PvP stats, then your character is also useless.
With that design there’s a much sharper differentation between PvP gear and PvE gear, and you absolutely must have a specific set for each activity.
And that’s seemingly the design situation Blizzard don’t want to end up in.
what is pvp stats.
is a stat on a pvp gear in the old days where if you had just pvp gear on you would take less damage and do more damage than a player who is full of pve gear.
WTF is that response? What are you saying if there is a pvp stats pve gear will be pointless.
In tbc when I used to play more you had a mix of pvp and pve gear since pve gear had better stats and resilience the more you had of it the more it dropped.
In wod another expansion I played you could ignore pvp gear completely since the gear in pvp only scaled up to the mythic raid so you could just pvp with your full mythic geared char.
How is this not fair I wonder I do not see an issue for the pve players since if they are serious about pve they will get that mythic loot at some point what is the issue for us to have an easier time getting it.
A response explaining to you the difference between having multiple sets in BfA versus having multiple sets when Resilience was a thing.
I mean, you should realize that there’s a huge difference between having another set in your bags with some different Corruption effects, and then having another set in your bags filled with Resilience and PvP Power.
Yes.
The reason why players sometimes used a mix of PvE and PvP gear in TBC was because the defensive powers far outscaled the offensive powers. So in order to beat some of those immortal comps that existed in TBC, some sacrificed Resilience in favor of more Crit. And speaking of Crit, some specs heavily depended on having high levels of Crit in order to function properly, so they couldn’t sacrifice every slot of gear for more Resilience even if they wanted to. Blizzard fixed that imbalance in Resilience in Cataclysm so Crit-reliant specs weren’t penalized more than everyone else.
But to summarize it, then the first iteration of Resilience in TBC wasn’t a design-balanced stat. And some of the comps in TBC weren’t very balanced either, thus being able to easily forego a stat that was a necessity to others.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with PvP stats at all. That’s a result of gear scaling which is another design solution, but I beleive your headline says: “Blizz please give pvp stats”.
I believe Blizzard’s point about not having PvP stats in PvP is to have low barriers to entry, i.e. gear is just gear. Any attempt to introduce PvP stats is an attempt to make PvP gear better in PvP than any other kind of gear - which subsequently makes it mandatory to acquire in order to effectively do PvP. And that seems to be what Blizzard wants to avoid.
Having a specific PvP stat is not a very good design choice, yes and the logic behind having “gear is just gear everywhere” is good - participate in any activity with your gear, obtained through any activity. But does it work like that actually?
What is bad, and I think the whole PvP community is united around this point, is having the best gear for PvP obtainable from PvE.
The best gear for PvP should be obtainable through PvP, or, if they want to force ppl to play PvE, which obviously they want, then best gear for all activities should be equally spread through all various activities and contents.
What we have now, is a one sided game - everything best that you need for everything comes from only one activity - PvE, and since this is the activity that PvPers usually don’t like it creates a significant problem for them.
Some people see in resilience an answer to that, but it creates other problems, already given, mainly a barrier to entry in PvP from PvErs. But if you don’t see the irony…PvE currently creates a barrier to entry in PvP, you can’t do anything sensible in PvP without farming PvE first, you’ll be just obliterated, which is the same, if we had a specific PvP stat, and PvE ppl would enter in PvP with their PvE pure gear.
So yes, resilience is not a good answer for the problems, but having to farm PvE, as a PvPer, to be able to compete in PvP is not an answer either, it is one of the things that drives ppl away from PvP and the game.
3 Likes
Universal - homogenized gear doesn’t work and there is barely any difference between having resilience gear in Cata and current gear with terrible stats. For example - this is too Jito - resilience gear had actually good stats but in lesser amount than PvE one - so you were slightly weaker than PvE player and what was the biggest issue was lack of hit and exertise. Wait a moment here… Are these stats in the game? Nope - not anymore.
In BFA in comparison for example my best stat for raiding was Crit/Haste and in PvP was Haste/Versa. Damage loss was quite similar to resilience gear one. Considering removal of some stats resilience or whatever else - call it shouldn’t be a big deal but Ion wants top M+ and raiders to be strong in PvP for some reason.
I think the PvE to PvP comparison falls a bit short since PvP is a hilltop to the Mount Everest that the entirety of PvE represents. It’s one thing to ignore PvP – which represents a few medium-sized gameplay aspects – and then trying to ignore PvE which is the bulk of the entirety of the game. I think it’s unreasonable to have the expectation that you can ignore something like Torghast and that nothing from Torghast should be of interest to a devoted PvPer. You’re going to have to do Torghast for those legendary items. And I think that’s okay.
Beyond that, then Blizzard are changing the way the Weekly Chest works. So there’ll just be one chest now, and everything you do – regardless of whether it’s PvE or PvP – will contribute toward the quality of gear in that chest. And the gear itself is a lot more deterministic so it’s not pure RNG like today.
Plus, the details of the PvP vendor remains to be seen, i.e. the quality and cost of the gear. Before we know those details, it’s too early to say whether or not it’s competitive with dungeon or raid gearing, among other.
Just to clarify here, I have merely provided Blizzard’s reasoning for having one cohesive gear design across the whole game – low barriers to entry.
My own personal opinion leans more toward a desire for as much gear progression and item tinkering as possible. So I’m not at all opposed to PvP stats and isolated PvP gear progression. I would quite welcome it, I think.
Of course that doesn’t take anything away from the fact that Resilience as a stat had issues, and high barriers to entry also has issues.
But Jito nobody says about ignoring PvE. In MoP I did a lot of dungeons to get Justice and exchange it for honor. Also we have LFR and Normal raids. You can do them even in very low gear. I can see whole plot without doing HC or Mythic.
My point was more that “The best PvP gear should come from PvP” is a good principle, but there’ll be exceptions because of the size and scope of PvE.
With Shadowlands there’s just no way around Torghast and the story with the Runesmith and legendary items and such. You’re going to have to go in there a few times. It’s unreasonable to expect to play Shadowlands without having your character go through the content and story of Shadowlands.
The same will likely pertain to Covenants.
As much as some might want to isolate themselves 100% within Arenas, some PvE will likely always be required as far as character and gear progression is concerned.
You are merging ALL pve content, which is dungeons, raids, world quests (apart from world PvP) with a very specific content - PvP. You will never understand the mindset of a PvPer as you are not doing arena and I can understand that.
Having the bulk of the game content be PvE, does not equate in any good designer’s mind into forcing ppl that do only 1 content into doing other forms of content. A good designer would try to provide the means to ppl to have fun participating in the content they choose to participate, regardless of it’s size in the game - those games are called … good games.
Even a mini game done well in an RPG (any kind, solo/mmorpg) can influence a lot the perception and the satisfaction of playing that game and the vice versa.
Besides, Blizzard have a whole championship dedicated to PvP, wouldn’t call it insignificant at least from a publicity PoV.
I wouldn’t want a separate PvP stat tbh, tinkering with stats - yes, I’d like that, what is most important is that ppl should not be forced to play content they don’t like, in order to compete in other form of content. Or, at least minimize to the critical minimum that participation.
Thorgast might be a good shot, we’ll see. It’s kind of a solo-able content, like a separate rogue-like game.
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I think the PvP community could cope with an item coming from PvE here and there, unless it’s grossly OP as we have now, but having all your gear coming from PvE, when you do PvP, instead of being the opposite is bad, any way you look it.
Then it’s badly designed content. It’s huge design flaw by designing team.
WoW is quite old game and it’s just ridiculus that WoW devs can’t create PvP and PvE environment that doesn’t affect each other. Also PvP is huge part of WoW. That’s the main reason you have too factions not like in many other MMO games where you don’t.
In fact Jito - if they wanted they could make arenas lore - no joke. Add God of War who has a colosseum as his temple where players fight in different arenas to please that God. God’s rule is use gear made form special material that god approves. Lore problem solved.
But to make it work WoW devs have to be creative not stubborn pretending they know better.
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Sure. And I guess we’ll see. Again, the details of that PvP vendor remains to be seen. I don’t think a PvP stat is necessary to make the PvP items on that vendor compelling. Item level vs. cost is probably the important detail.
That, and secondary stats.
Then how are you going to make PvP trinket better in PvP than raid Trinket that does insane damage, gives you insane defensive potential?
I think they have a technical tool to manage that, they just don’t want to use it for other reasons than “can’t”. Easy to nerf power of something when in PvP combat.
I think the PvP trinkets Blizzard introduced early in BfA show that there’s a lot of design space for creating compelling PvP trinkets.
Beyond that, old solutions like having a set bonus on PvP trinkets is a solution as well.
And it’s worth adding that Ion has said that overpowered PvE trinkets in PvP aren’t a problem because they come from PvE. They’re a problem because they’ve been overpowered, which suggests a failure on the item design rather than the item acquisition.
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Exactly this! But they need to reintroduce this buff and be quicker with testing. In BFA it took them 2 months to nerf these two things.
In fact they nerfed them 3 times and they were still better than any other thing obtainable from PvP.
To do it they need people to test it. If they would invite some Gladiators on PTR to test trinkets - 2 months before new raid is released where players can provide them with feedback it makes sense but instead they just release them as it is.
Blizzard can do so much more to avoid these flops. However they don’t care Jito. PvP testing is non existing and the moment when PvE trinkets are properly nerfed comes when people already abused them to the limit.