Let me put it this way. Lets say feral druids are cheeseburgers now and they’re taking the cheese out for tbc. What were getting is still a burger. It pretty much still has a ton of calories and its still tastes ok. But before you had a cheeseburger. I just want mah cheese.
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But right now Feral is very uncompetitive, I mean in Classic there are Rogues, Warriors and Mages and then everyone else, peasants. In TBC every class does well, Feral is way way better compared to the others than it is in Classic, you can actually make a case for playing Feral DPS now, probably a hard fought one but you’ve got a case none the less.
And of course I play Fury Warrior, very good dps in TBC but with the current set of changes it’s looking like wallowing in mediocrity in T4. Changes such as removing the patch 2.1 melee meta but not removing the patch 2.3 caster meta also have some effect on the balance (for you too). And classes with energy feedback (example Warriors/Rogues) are also hurt more by the drums changes.
I mean the balance is different to any phase of the original TBC, but I don’t see how giving Ferals apparently 20% more dps than they had in TBC is seen as a good thing.
Okay, sorry for that. You seem like a nice guy, so I will discuss this seriously.
I agree that Feral DPS is already underwhelming, especially considering the effort a good feral dps has to put into his rotation (especially when compared to a shadow-destro, who presses 1 the entire fight 
) , and a change that hurts their output isn’t exactly desirable.
BUT!
Once we open the door for pick&chose changes, where every class gets to chose their version of the game, we are in hairy territory.
Because you will now absolutely get Rogue PvP Mains who demand that CloS is on Preparation again.
You will get dps minmaxer Locks who will demand that their DemonicKnowledge scaling is raised.
You will get people who demand that wonky PServer mechanics bugs be introduced into TBCC because they were so used to them on their PServers.
And these are just the ones I am certain about. I am sure this list could be extended for several pages.
There is a Reason why Blizz sets a fixed patch for the expansion.
Im more worried about the taste of my burger (gameplay) then the amount of calories im losing out (dps).
Completely agree with this.
I dont feel like the health of the game depends on which class does more dps then which, but the overal enjoyment of people playing it.
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Yeah, I agree that its thin ice. But I feel like, in this spirit of #somechanges there is room to carefully determine in what way a change will affect the rest of the players and whether they were intended in the first place. If a change to the overal chronology (second time im using this word this hour but I dont know a word that doesnt make me sound conceited) in the way content is released pleases a large portion of the players it effects and isnt harmfull for the overal gameplay I dont see a problem with that.
That would suggest that the entire community behind every other class wouldnt go balls to the walls and that blizzard would actually put the effort in to determine long term effects of such decisions, so I get what ur saying. Maybe im just naïve. I do feel like determining what is good or bad for the game by discussing it amongst ourselves isnt completely unworthwile though.
I’m not as young as I was a few years ago so I’m more about the enjoyment now, but in TBC and most the expansions I spent time with I was the biggest dps freak, and probably obnoxiously so at times, it was all I cared about. And back in those days I was top damage a lot, just obsessive about it.
That’s not gonna really happen this time at least for a good while and I don’t enjoy that. But really the negative part about some of the changes is how they affect the gameplay since it will directly affect rage generation in the early game, which will make the spec feel more up and down, less consistent and flowing (a lot harder to play).
Which is similar to the situation you’re finding yourself in, so I can understand. But the OP is about the 20% nerf to the damage. 20% damage added to Ferals in TBC would make them very competitive on single target, but only in some situations… So it wouldn’t be “overpowered”… But every day we stray further from any version of TBC that existed.
Giving ferals 20% more damage would be a massive thing, if ever there were a slippery slope argument I think that’d be it, though perhaps we’ve already gone past that point.
I think our difference in opinion pretty much boils down to perspective then. U think its a 20% increase from what it was in what you perceive as the game we’re gonna play (2.4.3) and I see it as a 20% decrease from what it is now and I dont perceive the game we’re gonna play as the 2.4.3 version. I DO feel like were long past that. And if i’m gonna get excrement for dinner, im atleast gonna ask (argue with strangers on the internet) for some salt and pepper.
Lol, no swearing on blizzard forums.
I don’t understand your point of view. In TBC Feral druid dps is passable enough to take up a raid spot when compared to other specs because the overall balance is much closer, where as in Classic druids are doing half the dps of Rogues and Fury Warriors.
What you’re asking for is for Blizzard to make class design/balance changes to Feral to make them do more dps. Should I then as a Fury Warrior also riot because in they are reducing my potential dps massively by normalising rage in TBC and swapping death wish for sweeping strikes? Do you get my drift? There are a lot of changes that happened to a lot of classes between Classic and TBC and between TBC 2.0 and 2.4.3.
If they change feral druids they change the class balance of the game and then everyone wants balance changes.
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How do you come to that conclusion? It literally says it may be intentional. The fact that it appears to have pointed out during the PTR testing before going live, and not being reverted during the remaining year of TBC back then also points towards it being an intentional change.
Well, this will get resolved in one of two ways:
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“This was an unintentional change back in TBC and we are reverting back to how it worked prior to 2.2” <— Quite possible since Blizzard is clearly working on this issue. If it was as cut and dry as some here state then they would not have done 2 changes on it already.
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No reply, no change in the end (Thats our no, it aint getting changed back).
As for the people talking about “Lets have how it was then” but play Warlocks and other 1 button classes/specs etc, please, just relax, no one is going to take anything from you. This change to Feral only makes a world of difference to Ferals in the sense of gameplay, its more complex and fun for us. Yes the dmg will go up, but it would go from average to average +.
As for some comparing this powershift change to bringing Warlocks to a more powerful state, or letting Rogue prep reset Cloak again etc, its not a very intelligent comparison, but for the sake of the argument I understand what you are trying to say. But try to understand Feral Druids, whats happening now most likely was not a intended change at the time (my assumption, but would like official confirmation). If you want a really pure TBC experience stop playing only op classes (60-70% of the playerbase), bring back spellbatching, break down your internet and nuke your pc, remove all your binds and click everything. As well bring back TBC in patches, not as the final patch w/ some changes.
Yeah, does not sound as nice. Stop using it as a shield against returning powershifting to Ferals, makes you sound dumb.
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My net connection in 2007 was pretty good, the average net connection during TBC here was like 5mb, when I moved home in 2017 I had to play on local wifi for a bit with an unstable connection around 500kbs and I cleared the Fury Warrior mage tower challenge with that, at relevant ilvl too.
Point being, the internet connection argument is not that valid because I had a good connection in TBC and you don’t need a particularly fast connection to play with low latency, I think I had 80-100ms world latency back then, which is nothing. As for the rolling back the patches, well that is literally what you’re asking for but only for you. Blizzard haven’t made any other class changes other than Horde/Alliance parity for Paladins, which is actually a much smaller buff for Alliance than what you’re asking for for druids.
Druids in TBC are already godly tanks while being decent DPS and bringing good utility, you always have a raid spot if you’re willing to be flexible.
Actually, the seal twisting is a lot bigger change then this, since its gives Ret Paladins a truck load of dmg, where as this wont change the dmg nearly as much, but will make the spec more fun if you are into the complexity of cat dps.
Again, its not about getting a raid spot, nor your above average net back in TBC. Its about a possibly unintended change, and again if it was as simple as you state they would not have changed how it works twice already.
I think they should revert it, you think the opposite. By the end we will know who was “right”.
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Seal twisting isnt a change, seal twisting was present in TBC patch 2.4.3. Your suggested reverted changes was not present in patch 2.4.3.
But the Alliance side having SoB was not in TBC. So your “Keep TBC as it was” is already in the water, along w/ the 58 boost and a ton of other stuff.
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It was not in TBC, but for a start it’s a much, much smaller performance difference than what you’re asking for and it’s also a change to create faction parity to reduce the horde faction balance bias in TBC. What you’re asking for is a mechanic that was removed entirely from the game and stayed that way for half of the expansion, a mechanic that Ferals are claiming will give them 20% dps.
Well I tell you what I have some specs I’d like a 20% buff with too.
I am starting to think that you dont understand that this is mainly a complexity and gameplay change. Will it change our dmg? Sure, but no, it wont be 20% since its 20 energy, it will just make us slower and more clunky to play. Ret Seal Twisting will be a super massive dmg boost. How massive? Well, its hard to say who was twisting seals back in TBC (I played a Pala for 16 years and I never knew of it back then). Belfs are still waaay ahead of Humans and Dwarves on the dmg logs.
The energy tick was a change that even a Blizzard blue confirmed was not intended towards Feral energy tick back in the day.
Again, I want Blizzard to give it to us str8, yes it was intended and will stay as such, or no it was not. Simple.
This only shows that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to other classes.
Making the exact same rotation take 5 seconds instead of 4 does not make it less complex. You hit the exact same button(s) in the exact same order.
That is a very unreasonable assumption considering that players and Blizzard were aware of the issue back in August 2007, over a year before the 3.0 prepatch, and almost a year before 2.4.3 which is the patch TBC classic is based on. There was plenty of time to revert it if it wasn’t intended.
I played a mage in TBC, and I will play a mage this time around. It’s not like playing a feral druid will give an experience closer to what I had than a mage can.
A small price to pay if I could get the most fun version of my class instead of the 2.4.3 version.
My internet and PC was perfectly capable of running the game decently back then. Prior Blizzard introducing spell queuing I even used a macro to make sure my spells were cast with a shorter pause between them than my latency would otherwise have allowed.
We laughed at clickers back then as well. Why would I start clicking now?
That sounds great. I asked for this even before TBC was announced. Give us patch progression to ensure maximum fun instead of the no fun allowed “most complete” version of TBC.
So, since you don’t have any good arguments other than “I want to be more powerful”, can I have my fun polymorph, blizzard and ice block spells back please?
It doesn’t matter why you want the change, why do you think that it matters what your intention is behind the change? “Oh the 20% dps is just a byproduct, what I really want is the smooth gameplay”… Well that’s great but we’re going into TBC patch 2.4.3 and Ferals in patch 2.4.3 do not play like they do in Classic.
You know what also doesn’t play like in Classic? Fury Warriors, and let me tell you I’d love the gameplay of having permanent rage and the sweet dps that comes with it too, oh yeah lets go back to Classic Fury Warrior. Or lets go back to earlier TBC when melee haste was amazing and Dragonspine Trophy truly was as good as people remember it.
What you’re saying is “Oh I’ve just realised that I don’t like TBC Feral druid, can you change it back please”
Roll the dice, we’re seeing constant fixes, changes and adjustments for things that were or were not intended for the sake of the game without any objective criteria. We’re wellllll past that stage of keeping things literally as they were, now it’s just picking favorites.
If that little screenshot from Tanitha is true then it was ‘unintended’ as much as the other changes were. On that note I expect TBC to be a ‘changes’ game along the way, regardles if this particulair thing gets ‘fixed’.
Yes, sorry I insulted Warlocks and Mages with their 1 button rotation thru classic. Still does not make what I said wrong.
Well, when your whole rotation is Firebolt from start to finish I can see why you would think there would be no change to our rotation since you dont have to pay attention to anything when you play.
Its less complex because now you can ignore your energy bar ticking = less complex. No its not going to make us into classic Mages rotation wise, but if I wanted to play super easy id be playing something else that did a lot more dmg.
And yet in that exact same post a blue confirmed that the change was not intended towards Feral energy. Could he have been wrong? 100% could have, but back then probably 10 Ferals in the world knew what powershifting was so the change could have easily gone under the radar as unintentional and no one would have said a word.
Binding all spells was still not “the meta” in TBC, especially early on, tho Arenas did help but that all took time. We all laughed at clickers, and we all clicked a ton of stuff, from mounts, to pots, to certain spells. But sure, keep laughing you were the exception for all of that.
20 energy =/= as double block for a already broken pvp spec. You do see the massive difference here, correct ?
Actually they play exactly the same, you just don’t have the world buff meta to give you all the power from classic. If you did you would still be melting since Warriors scale insane good.
Look, guys, we (The Feral dps druids) are saying the energy change was not intentionally done back in the day. You have your opinion we have ours, in the end Blizzard will decide and that will be that.