We all know how long it takes to pug keys and the risk you take with them.
Whilst in an ideal world it would be great to have a bunch of friends you can push keys with, in reality this is quite hard for some includng myself who works shifts and unavoidably have to pug keys when friends are offline.
Therefore, most of the time people put into this game is vaulable time that they don’t want to go to waste.
With that being said, I, as well as the majority of the community are getting sick and tired of players purposefully and maliciously bricking keys early on in a dungeon just because a person has died. Not only does it ruin the person’s key, but it also wastes 4 other players time who now have to spend the next 30 minutes just trying to get into a group.
Whilst I could fully understand people leaving if the group wipes over and over again but people are leaving keys for 1-2 deaths when a time is still MORE than achievable. Especially keys up to +10.
What this all boils down to is the communitys fixation on M Rating which seems to come before morals, ethics and sportsmanship.
Whilst I am not excusing people who can’t be bothered to learn tactics, this toxic elitist behaviour is becoming so prevalent the community is setting unrealistic expectations and expecting perfection in every run which is not going to happen.
It is my view that anyone who deliberately, maliciously or willfully bricks a key just because of a single death should be facing short term suspensions. It is the only way people will learn. Whilst I accept it may be heavy handed, I don’t think this level of toxicity can continue.
If you disagree then you are part of the problem and probably one of the players bricking keys and my argument right back at you is if you want perfection, then go run M+ groups with friends instead of ruining everyone else’s experience in a PUG.
If those are deaths from not knowing mechanics, standing in goo, or not interrupting…then your assumption that it’s more than achievable is premature.
If you face such deaths early on in a dungeon, those players should (with all due respect) maybe read up and go lower to get familiar with the content first. Not doing so is even more a waste of time.
Nope. It boils down to the point that mistakes can much less be covered up by others. Having one goo-eater is just making everything painful. Add a non-interrupter and the healer will have to go in greater lengths than they would have had to do in a key +3 levels with decent players.
I’d say that the majority of the low-key players just expect a face-roll dungeon. Standing in goo? Ah, let the healer heal more. Not interrupting? Who cares, see point 1. Mechanics? Will figure it out along the way. But in many fights there’s a bit too much going on without it being inherently clear what exactly needs to happen and how - this is a bit of a naive mindset in the current content.
A nice example is Stonevault, the boss where you have to deal with those Crystals. So far, the groups who knew that each Crystal (kill) gives the entire group a 3s debuff, stacking per Crystal, is countable on one hand. It’s very sad.
I don’t disagree with you here. If people are dying on basic mechanics then I understand where you are coming from but equally, when is the last time you’ve ever seen someone give someone helpful advice in party chat or a polite whisper?the answer is never.
Is it really that hard to say “man, perhaps you didn’t know but you really need to interrupt this spell OR, you keep standing in stuff causing damage. If you can’t see it I’d recommend getting this add on”.
Except people don’t do this. They just flame and leave the group. When you berate or flame people it gives them anxiety and makes them perform worse whereas a simple polite helping hand goes along way.
Let’s not escape from the fact that we are talking about lower level keys here. People doing +10s and above don’t have this problem because they spend a lot of time perfecting builds and comps.
I stand by my original comment, if people want perfection, play with your elitist friends who never make a mistake in their life. Stop ruining the experience for everyone just because you have an entitled mindset.
I can’t speak for others, but in dungeons I always, and I mean always, give a brief explanation of the mechanics if something seems to not go quite right. No offensive words, no aggression, just a brief summary.
You know what the response is to that in close to 100% of the cases? Nothing. No confirmation that it was read, no confirmation that it was understood, just nothing. I have in all these years (since the release of WoW) not faced a more anti-social community than now, at least when dealing with randoms.
At some point even that approach will seize to exist as I am not gonna bother with mute people. And when forming groups myself, I un-invite people if they can’t type. Doesn’t have to be perfect English or anything, just something, a response.
I know, this happens too. Not gonna deny that;p
This one you can also twirl around; if you want to explore M+n, and are not sure about any of it; go with like-minded players. In the end in M+ you are expected to know the drill. Maybe not all the details in +2 or +3, but beyond that point you really need to know the tactcs, you need to interrupt, you need to just carry your own weight at the very least.
Can I ask you, what is appropriate punishment for those who don’t play appropriate to the key level? What if somebody fails to kick a lethal cast on a +8? Can we delete their account? Can we just ban them permanently from anything over a +4?
There are certain expectations when a player joins a key. At +2 and +3, there’s basically the expectation that you know the class and you have seen the mechanics at least from Heroic.
At +4 to +6, you are expected to pull your weight on performance and kick the right stuff and don’t take avoidable damage.
The expectation on +7 and above is that you can make one or two mistakes on the run and have play your class optimally.
You fail to meet these expectations, don’t be surprised that people will leave you in a key in progress.
Who would have thought that tightening the timers AND cranking up the scaling will result in way more pug toxicity early in the season?
Once everyone the avg will be above 620, this issue will solve itself.
Still, the current +7 affix is simply a bad design and should be replaced with something else or just plainly erased…
Remember that Legion m+ did not have any affixes on m2 since that was the first difficulty where ppl met the timer (which already includes -5 sec per death btw)?
Sounds way more logical to me.
If i see someone dying in the first second of a pull
all motivation to play with them is gone …
So no do not go hard on griefers but make the ones that die in key like 10 times just ban them straigh from the game
I never die in key so how the hell you get clapped in anything below 10 is beyond me
and the worse part is that someone dying is 15 second
die like that few times and now you have 3 minutes off timer
big nono for me
And please, stop with the “don’t make mistakes” argument. Everyone makes mistakes, and they will happen from time to time—even the so-called elite, face-palming players. But leaving a group after the first death, especially when you’ve already taken down one boss and still have plenty of time left, is just plain dumb behavior. There’s absolutely no benefit—whether in-game or in life—to acting like that.
P.S.: I’m looking for a group of 4 players who aren’t the “face-palming elitist” type, to start a chill community focused on relaxed raids and Mythic+ keys.
I disagree with you. How can you punish people for leaving a key, when you have no clue why they left in the first place?
As Long as you can’t answer this question via an automated program, that can’t get abused, you will never see a system that punishes leaver.
Btw: what about people that run higher than +10, because they want to push their score? It is universally accepted to leave the key when it’s not timeable. Should we get punished too?
