This guy’s best argument in a discussion earlier was blaming me for calling an ability “greater heal” instead of “heal”, and he accused me in the lack of knowledge, saying “wow man you’re so stupid greater heal is a pvp ability, our discussion is over”, but the thing is “heal” was called “greater heal” very big amount of time from classic till wod (if i remember correctly) and later renamed to “heal”. Sorry for being too old I guess 
So this was this guy’s best argument to stop the discussion.
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I was curious and I looked it up now. I think you are completely wrong. The reason why there is such a huge player drop off is the following: You can gear to 447 in 1-2 months, and if you raid mythic, even earlier. I think people just got the gear they want and cleared the content/achieved the rating they want way too fast. That’s all. The reason why the previous expansions you talk about kept people playing was something negative imo: They were forced on a treadmill that kept them playing artificially by forcing people psychologically to waste their time. This current version of wow is way better and respects the life of their players.
If they bring this system that you suggest with AP, I’m immediately gonna quit the game. I watched a youtube video about this and this seems mental and disgusting. This version of wow we play is way way way way better, and if people stopped playing faster, this doesn’t mean that it’s worse. Engagement metrics are not a direct indication of quality.
So yeah, I think I actually completely disagree with you.
Can their be some system like this “corruption” that makes open world content more important and gives more fun game mechanics? 100%, but if and only if it’s not forcing people into content they don’t wanna do, and if it’s not some huge infinite grind. I hate repetitive grinds.
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All these people have is bad faith arguments. I have already declared victory in another post. We were all right about the issues facing this expansion all along. The numbers are so awful people are not even trying to deny it anymore. Instead they have reached the point where they make ridiculous excuses.
Sadly of course, we have not won anything at all, since this game we all really wanna play and enjoy now sucks because Blizzard had to listen to these geniuses, some of whom literally get paid to play the game, yet were unable to comprehend that their suggestions would kill it.
Very interesting theory you have there. Blaming gear for the 50 % drop.
There are some people in this thread that suffer from the delusion that people don´t play for gear because they do not personally do so. I think you should try and argue with them and take over from Curvyboi before he loses his sanity (although anyone posting on the WoW message boards is probably alrdy clinically insane, myself included).
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I’m very sure about that. Gearing is one of my main motivations to do content, but I also want the content to be good and somewhat challenging, so I feel better about overcoming the challenge and get the reward for that as a trophy. That’s how I like the game the most. Now that I basically beat the game, got max ilvl of 446 for me without mythic raiding, I just enjoy the fact that I can just do play through the story, collect some stuff and not play as much. I also like to play alts now and level them to go through campaigns from previous expansions that I didn’t experience.
If I was playing the game for many years, I would have quit ofc and waited for next patch, which is a good thing.
Spot on, but they refuse to admit.
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Yep. We were both vocal about it super early lol.
Although to be fair, some of them still just do not understand they were wrong because they are so bad at maths that they think ppl will run around in Mythic raid gear from LFR and WQs if we bring back titanforging.
These are the same people of course, that do not understand the maths behind the many different mechanisms to AP, and thus do not comprehend how much of a waste of time grinding AP was if you were not a world first raider.
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Yep. Player power is the main motivator to do all content in WoW, and historically has been since the games inception.
That´s what this entire thread is about.
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I just wonder how many times so called “community feedback” has to back-fire in other for devs to learn damn lesson and to stop listening irrational and in same cases genuinely stupid people.
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I think you’re wrong about AP though. I don’t think this AP system is healthy. What they should do imo is making mythic raiding way easier, so people feel like they are able to progress through the mythic raid and keep playing the season. I genuinely think people, who clear heroic first week, should all fully clear mythic at the end of the season.
I think that’s where they can make the season last longer by making mythic raiding more approachable, and maybe even puggable without spreadsheets
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Yeah I hate being mean, but most WoW content creators are genuinely thick. There is no way to really be nice about it. You can see it when they talk about titanforging. It isn´t just that they don´t understand human behaviour or the most basic game design. They can not do basic probability.
Like how did Preach gaming and Bellular make WoW vids for like 10 years or something, and not manage to understand the WoW playerbase at all? Their dedication to being wrong is kind of admirable.
My big worry is all the terrible excuses we are seeing. I don´t have faith in current WoW content creators or Blizzard to be able to diagnose just why this expansion is such a massive failure.
Just go to Twitter. They all blame Exodia and Aug. But as the numbers show, S2 was alrdy terrible before .5…
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The game had more subscribers before AP was implemented in the game. When WoW had peak subscriber numbers, Legion with its first iteration of AP was some 6-7 years away.
Conclusion when applying your logic: AP decimated the playerbase.
I agree entirely.
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So an alternative system could be the following: They could make the ilvl throughout the season go up a way higher amount than now, and make the gearing process way longer, but if you are fully geared, then you can avoid or simplify mechanics by doing big dps, so at the end of the season, if you are fully geared, mythic raiding is similar to how hard heroic was at the start of the season. This way the mythic difficulty at the start can be preserved for the guilds that want the challenge, and at the end of the season it becomes content for players like myself.
tldr: So the carrot on the stick would be to make your ilvl as high as you can to be able to clear the mythic raid at the end. Then they would have to make the ilvl go up higher and it would need to be more grindy to get ilvl.
Most people’s low DPS is because they have no clue how to play their spec, not because they lack gear.
Take me: I do like 150k dps max as a shadow priest, with an aug evoker in the party. I have pretty damn good gear with me being at 447. Then when I’m healing, which is my main spec, I see shadow priests with worse gear doing same or higher DPS. Doesn’t matter how much gear you would feed me, a shadow priest that plays better in worse gear is gonna pull the same DPS or better than me.
I mean if you can’t do your dps properly, you shouldn’t rly do the mythic raid. However, I described a scenario, where your ilvl would go now up to 457, and it would make mythic aberrus or example at the end of the season feel like heroic, if your full raid is fully geared and can use their char properly without necessarily having to deal with overly complex mechanics. However, I would then also make 1 upgrade cost 2 or even 3 aspect crests, so it becomes grindy, and rewards guilds for starting to progress mythic earlier with 460 gear.
Bruh.
Nerfs are more impactful than obtaining gear for most people as far as mythic raiding is concerned.
I just tried to think of a way to make heroic raiders able to work towards mythic raiding in a reasonable way without removing the early challenge for all these hardcore guilds
Remove the hard 20-man cap. Roster is the biggest enemy of guilds raiding mythic.
Maybe. Because I feel like I should be trying to clear the mythic raid atm with my current progress and the fact I cleared aberrus heroic now like 15 times (actually more close to 20) and even tanked it on a 411 ilvl char. At this point I feel like the next step would definitely be to raid mythic, but the jump in difficulty, organization, and time is extreme in my opinion. Do I really wanna raid with a 20 man roster with fixed time schedules using 10 spreadsheets and prepping hard? not really. In heroic I could do it with random players easily the third week or something with whatever group size I wanted.
What I mean is that the upwards difficulty progression is too heavily tied on organization, skill, and guilds, when imo it should be tied to your character progression too, and these 3 things should only be important at the start of the season.
But yeah, removing the 20-man-hardcap would be the best way to make people like me try out mythic raiding for sure.
You can go at heroic raid with 10 friends but then you want to step into mythic? Nope. You need to be 20. No more, no less. 20 people only.