Blizzard needs to reintroduce AP to save wow

And where did I say everything’s good ?!

Probably because people are farming old mounts there since it had plenty of grindy mounts which Zaralek cavern does not.

My friendlist was emptier in BFA, what would that imply ?

15% is quite a hefty number.

You got me here, I recognize my defeat.

DF launch was bad, but at the same time.

Why people simply can’t accept the idea that SL simply killed the player’s hope while many people not being hyped by DF’s theme ? People came back in Legion thanks to a good hyping theme.

They’re easy, yes.

I mean, why would run HC raiding when M+ is a completely valid playstyle providing the same gear ilvl ? M+ pretty much ate the casual raiding playerbase.

To each to their own, I’m not Piper Perry so being 1v5 on a constant basis just took on my nerves.

So if there was no AP bonus, would you still have played WM on ?

Yeah, because Asmongold & cie were saying how vastyly superior classic was :x

I meant in terms of subscribers, aka 12 Millions, not in terms of lore which made Arthas looking like some kind of B-show vilain or some raids being huge let downs. Not to mention that some aspects of classes were clunky, so it was not peak for me either.

I mean, sure, but it’s quite frustrating it took blizzard literal months to fix systems or implement changes asked during beta.

We’ve lost so much and what blizzard gave us in exchange was not on part.

Sadly, that’s how players think about that. Cata was actually fine but DS patch kinda killed the expansion, when Firelands was quite solid. Or even the expansion introducing good ideas like gear reforging has just been forgotten by 4.3 lasting an entire year.

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t have true peak wow expansion. That being said, I’ve always said Wrath is quite an overrated expansion, since :
-I have good memories from ulduar and ICC, but Naxx and Onyxia’s Lair being straight up copy pasta felt bad. Not to mention that between Ulduar and ICC we’ve got Trial of the crusader which kinda sucked to be honest. And…I also didn’t like Sanctum rubis as a filler raid.
-Arthas being turned into a B-show vilain has been a huge letdown given the fact I’ve known Arthas through WarIII. It’s quite sad he went from that badass character defeating Illidan and leading the scourge to some kind of dude running away saying like “AHAHHAAH you won’t defeat me”
-Gameplay was archaic, such as melee dps having some incants.

I didn’t like grinding mana perls in the hope of getting benthic gear. I mean, I would have been stupid not to get my hands on “free” DPS increase inside EP, right ?
And I’ve changed main at the start of 8.3 so I had to regrind every single essences back which kinda felt awful.

I hated corruptions. I mean, I was playing a low haste warlock when other warlocks in my guild enjoyed having 1.5s cast time on their Chaos bolt whereas I was stuck with 3s.
I’m not an entitled Karen, but I felt like doing the same content should have lead to same results, aka me getting a faster (and tbh more enjoyable) gameplay instead of me being stuck with low haste until…Blizzard added a vendor.

Would having a vendor at launch ruined the experience ?!

That’s the only part I agree with and like Thorgasht, I’m sad Blizzard scrapped the idea all together instead of making them evergreen content.

I mean, that’s the only metric to check if retention is good or not.

No, for me as a raider, it was not a progress sytem, it was a tax, since I couldn’t progress at my pace, aka being done within the span of a week or catching up whenever I can and feel like.

I hated titanforging due to me getting downgrades from killing mythic bosses, which should be upgrades. I’ve always advocated for a middle ground solution which most of pro titanforgin rejected was bringing back gear upgrade and allow TF to be some kind of shortcut.

And if AP was a good progression system, then why was catch up a thing ? I mean, if I might aswell just wait for cathing up so that would defeat the entire idea of having a grind in the first place.

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a) it was never mandatory
b) it was something to do. now you have literaly nothign to do but m+ and raiding. and its horrible because if you are bored with the same dungeons you cannot even change anythign - your only hcoice is to literaly play other games instead wow :confused:

i really enjoyed first weeks of this patch on my alts because freshly dinged alt had quite decent amount of things to do . but the moment you finish with 8/8 veteran / 4/8 champions you have nothign to do but m+ and raids.

and its horrible feeling which made me already stop wow for a month . im back for 1 week just to cap tenders for this month and im out again till next season because even after break i know im done with current season - bored and cba.

and i have nothign worht doing outside of m+ .

it feels extremly anticlimatic and not good.

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there is certain amount of certified addicts that will keep their sub runing no matter what.

im one of them . i boought 1 year sub knowing very well there will be extensive amount of time when i will not even play . but its easier for me to keep it runing.

i would say wow has easily 200-500k addicts like me.

but everyone else ? they dont even start playing anymore on launch when they see horrible expansion like DF.

honestly at this point wow needs a compelte overhaul of its very core . without it ? it will just keep loosing people .

unless blizzard is ok with it because they know all they have to do is drop more things into game shop to keep $$$$$$ flowing.

but its horrible market strategy - as they could have made 50-100 times more money if they had 10 mln people spending money in shop instead 100-200 k addicts

game is just to hard , to complicated , to messy to be enjoyed by masses of gamers in 2023.

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If i remember correctly game before Legion was literally a raidlogging.
Game never died and people always come back for new tier.
DF is no different right now we raidlog but that’s not bad i can literally play other games and have fun with it.
When a new patch comes out people are fresh and clean to start doing new content again.

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and the fact that you choose to play other games instead wow is a good sign for wow ?

it proves that wow is good ?

i would love to see the thought process that went there for you to reach to this conclusion

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You said it yourself you are a addict.
i’m no longer on that path so these days in my 30 i enjoy more games.
I used to play wow everyday without even hesitating to skip other games
nowadays i’m not that person.
I like variety and i like when i’m done with stuff in wow and i can go and play different game.
Because it changes your perspective about this game.
In other words i like wow more when i’m not playing it everyday religiously like i used to.
And it is a better game exactly because of this reason for me at least

No but the fact I can have a choice between either playing 3 or 7 days per week is a major upgrade.

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Players that already HAVE a healthy relationship with the game and don’t get obsessed over ‘falling behind’ or ‘BiS’ and all that, those can deal with AP just fine.

You’re talking about a particular type of player that has issues with AP. Why do others have to suffer because they can’t control themselves and view everything as ‘mandatory’ or ‘forced’?

I really don’t think that’s a fair thing.

I personally am not even asking for ‘general power gain AP’ back.
I’m asking for a very specialized AP that only gives some extra power/progress/options for world content; nothing that’s needed. But something that can be fun to get.
How is that a problem?

You always HAD that choice.
I now no longer have the choice to play 7 days per week, simply because there’s not enough worthwhile stuff to do for me. Why is that okay?

so you admit there is significantly less to do in wow in DF then in expansions before it.

thank you.

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It just goes on with the world tbh, you cant play a single game anymore, it’s a “new standard” you must be able to play a thousand games, and also take care of your family and your job, I dont agree with it, if I want to spend my entire day playing wow, I should be able to, but it’s just the way the world works nowadays, you are literally unable to play a single game, because its expected of you to play multiple other games

That’s a fat lie. You either had the level to use your azerite armor or people were gonna skip on inviting you and take someone that had the level to use their armor.

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it certainly wasnt in Legion - SL. and it was amazing.

sadly now its gone because people like you who dont really want to play wow in first place are clearly the main focus .

which is horrible for wow in long run . compelte failure of DF in every single aspect besides selling stuff in game shoop is best proof of it.

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nah never meet with this behaviour once in that time.

unless you were doing cutting edge keys it had 0 impact on you getting into groups.

you could do +15 for GV without farming a single AP .

but if you did other stuff then m+ you had a way to make yourself stronger and perform better. which was amazing

now its gone and we are back to do 1 m+ and then log out till next week unless you decide to farm raider io score.

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People like me ? I literally just said I dont agree with it, but thanks I guess ?

No, it didn’t. If you had to pick between someone with azerite armor that’s unusable for them and someone that can use their azerite armor - why would you pick the one that can’t use it?

Hahaha, no. You were NOT doing 15s without having your azerite armor active.

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Wrong, that’s not what I meant. Unless you mean that if a content is not mandatory then it’s not content, which, sorry, means you don’t like to play wow just for the sake of it.

wrong, I almost play wow, 80% of my time.

Probably because I’m not a neckbeard living like a leech from state welfare. It’s quite a pleasure waking up in the morning knowing my tax money is being spent on useless guys like that.

And you still can !

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Everything tied with player power makes it “mandatory”. Now I am aware to you do not play the “big 3 pillars” of the game but a nugget of wisdom? Those scenes are extremely competitive and that 1% dmg is sometimes enough to decide if you get invited or benched. So people who still want to raid/do m+/pvp even at 2 days per week, where forced to grind the AP to keep their edge.

If you could grind some currency for cosmetics or mounts or whatever…by all means. Add 500 of those, I dont care. :rofl:.
But alas we come back to square one. You want to grind for a meaningful reward well…whats a meaningful reward then? The moment it becomes player power, it becomes “mandatory chore”.

Correction:
I want to play WoW like a video game. NOT play it as a 2nd full time job requiring to log everyday.
A critteria for a good video game doesn’t necessitate that it needs to be playable 24/7 non-stop. Even FFXIV(the game many people consider here to be the Holy Grail of casual MMORPG) main dev even said that he is not expecting people to play 24/7 and its pefectly fine if not expected for people to take breaks and etc.

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Nah you are dishonest.

You just want to log in for RAID and log out. Same for m+ .

You are not interesting on playing wow as mmropg . Just as instance symulator.

That’s why df is compeltly failed garbage expansion - because they catered IT only for people liek you .

Even streamers WHO fought for exactly this kind of game stopped playing wow long ago due to how horrible experience it is

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I was doing my m+ with whatever azerite armour i had on my chars. And with whatever azerite level i had from just playing game. Jsut liek most other normal people.

Just liek now i feel 0 urge to farm a single crests to push my gear to 445 + i felt 0 urge to actively spam m+ for ap. But unlike in past i cannot do wq and get for example aspect crests to make my char more powerful like i could with ap. So i have no alternative to play m+

I had the reason to Play game outside of m+ though .now i have 0 reason . Just log in m+ and log out. Horrible experience compared to bfa-sl which iloved to Play

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Wotlk was just raids and dungeon spam(and pvp obviously). Barely anything if at all to do outside of them. Yet its considered the golden Era of WoW…

Wow going back to its roots i can always welcome. Better to please a smaller crowd
The “try to please everyone and fail eveyone in the result” approach didnt work out.

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