They are never going to please everyone, it’s an impossible task. So many people play the game at different levels in different content.
Out of interest is the trickle effect of WQs better like they did in Zara Caverns?
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I can’t really tell, honestly. Maybe?
Because WQs just aren’t worth doing for the most part.
Content needs to feel worthwhile and WQs really aren’t; they became obsolete for me 3 weeks after patch 10.1 was released. Which is just way too fast imo.
I did them for the renown for a good while. But I can’t remember when I hit max on each one. I could probably check my achieves, providing each had one.
Well, sure… Renown is a thing. But… Renown in DF also doesn’t really give much in terms of advancement - I believe 1 crafting reagent is all you basically get (and access to 2 items you could buy, but realistically you’d have better ilvl anyway by that time).
So, it’s again a matter of: Do you consider getting that Renown ‘worthwhile’. I didn’t, and it took me quite a while to hit max renown with the sniffrats (because I mainly got the rep through the weekly stuff).
It was different for the innitial renown in 10.0.
The expansion was new. I was excited. So yeah, I did all the WQs.
For me it gave me access to collectibles, recipes, and profession points. Something I’m having to do on alts.
On my main I will always cap all reps. It’s my main after all 
Fair enough. I don’t like playing on alts. It feels like a waste of time for me.
I like to focus on my main and getting that character ‘to the next goal’.
I can’t say I’m enjoying it on alts and I don’t do WQs on them to be fair.
So far I’ve done the weekly quest on my main and funnel the renown/rep tokens to the alts that need them. My alts do the weekly quest but not in one week. I don’t specifically do things to fill the renown requirement but rather it just happens while I’m doing the weekly quests for their professions. Then I do whatever event is needed to get the reward.
Today’s task was making a list of all the renowns I need to get the last profession points from the various factions. It’s kind of depressing to see how much I need to do but the joy of DF is that I can dedicate some time to it.
It’s really turned me off of professions, honestly.
That’s one of the things I don’t like in DF.
I have liked very little about the Profession overhaul.
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people didnt care about most of what you written . and espcialy about lawsuits.
people didnt buy DF because they were appaled by the direction DF has taken and which was visible before launch .v
streamers claimed people hated AP - yet somehow expansions with AP and other systems were selling very well.
DF is failure because it was completly catered to wrong crowd aka only for top 3-5 %. rest just got garbage with only transmogs to farm .
its a complete failure and streamers and youtubers and their simps are directly responsible for this.
i took direction of completly ignoring proffesions for the first time since like … ever .
i just pretend they dont exist 
cba to learn convoluted systems that doesnt provide me any decent rewards unless i invest milions of gold .
The gathering ones are okay, imo. Those just get better as you gather; makes sense.
But the crafting ones… Ugh.
I still haven’t maxed my engineering. That’s a first in any expansion that I’ve played when it was current content.
thats for sure. but trying to please 5 % of your players at cost of 95 % is terrible business decision .
i think Ions must have a nice stash of evidence on all the molestation that was ongoing in blizz that they want to sweep under rug if he wasnt fired untill today for the catastrophe he created .
in any other corporation he would be long gone.
I seriously doubt your percentages 
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Yeah, I’m just levelling my pally blacksmith now and will take a look at Blacksmithing, more as a hobby than to make gold.
But frankly I’m not looking forward to it from what I’ve read. It’s daunting just thinking about it.
These side content should be simple and straight forward. Add complexity by having interesting things to make, more mounts, mogs, toys, consumable buffs that can be crafted. Don’t just make the same old profession a load of faff to do the same stuff.
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People most defintly did, and i dont aee evidence to conclude at that eirher sounds like a personal issue u have with the game but think u will sound louder attempting to “talk on behalf of a majority”
Unless u can factually prove statements, dont make them on behalf of others.
Incorrect lol.
BFA and SL did sell high numbers sure, however forums made it clear as day everyone was angry at it.
Both expansions plummeted with evidence lol,
Again 0 evidence, no statistics, stop speaking on behalf of others. If people quit becauee of this, im sure blizzard will have the statistics and more to know. The fact we havent seen a event of smash glass panic regarding directional changes
As we saw in both BFA and SL, imma assume ur likely wrong.
I have many many friends who didnt even look at DFs content nor anything regarding it due to the fact they felt betrayed for 4 years regarding terrible expansions (BFA and SL)
Everyone im surrounded never started DF and doesnt know the first thing about it lol, they quit because the prior 2 were such wastes of time, they are glad to be free of the want to play the game and intend to remain that way.
Always find this a bit hilarious. Some people go out of their minds just to proclaim “Blizzard is dead, Blizzard is dying. WoW is dead. The end is near”.
And I just want to ask. “Ok. And?” Is this the part where I need to panic? 
If I am not an investor or owner or…heck employee(job security and stuff) then why should I care about Blizzard’s financial situation? Yet they act as if its their life’s calling to analyze Blizzard’s finances 
.
If I like said coffee, I will continue to buy it from store X and I dont care if said store is earning 100 milj a day or is mid-way bankruptcy procedure. I got enough to worry about my own roof thanks, than worrying if Company X is paying taxes or not.
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You’re remembering incorrectly. For the majority of wow’s history it wasn’t just raidlogging. In Vanilla for most players leveling was almost the entire game. You logged on, grinded levels to gain new talent points and you learned new skills as you leveled up. Sounds very similar to AP, right?
Once you reached max level you had reputations & professions you could grind out for player power.
TBC was the same, leveling was a huge part of the game and at max level you had to grind reps to unlock HC dungeons you could do for gear and also for badges. You also got good gear from reps.
Same for Wrath, less about leveling in this xpac but you did daily HCs for badges and you did rep grinds for gear+enchants.
Cataclysm had no grind that I can remember at least. Reps were super easy to get and leveling wasn’t a big part of the game at all.
Mists of Pandaria had rep grinds and also the Legendary quest line. It also had the Sha touched gems stuff before we started the lego cloak quests.
WoD only had the lego ring, but it required some grinding. Besides that though, the game had nothing to do besides raidlogging.
Legion & BFA had AP. SL had Torghast, but that was a weekly thing not really anything akin to AP.
So no, wow hasn’t always been a raidlogging game. Players just don’t realize how AP just iterated on systems we’ve always had.
You could do that in every wow expansion. Unless you were a WF raider you didn’t need to sit around and grind AP all day, every day. The AP catch-up was way more than enough for you to do 99.9% of content in the game. AP just gave players who like wow a reason & good reward to play regularly.
The only difference for my experience as a gamer now compared to Legion & BFA is that I barely touch wow anymore because it has no content outside of raids/m+. Every time a new game came out back then i’d play those as well.
A handful of clueless players would gatekeep like that. They still do it btw, I see people gatekeep based on tier sets now instead of Azerite armour. The issue wasn’t AP, the issue isn’t tier sets, the issue is that players will gatekeep for whatever reason.
Unless you were WF raiding it literally made 0 difference. You completely overestimate how good even mythic raiders are. Improving their rotation, getting better at mechanics & dying less would make them a way better player than 1% dps increase ever would.
Making the game better for everyone else takes priority over WF raiders and players who gaslight themselves into thinking a 1% dps increase matters for their WR 200 guild.
With how often I see people online parrot this nonsense you’d think it’s something a lot of players want, right? But every expansion made for you raidloggers is also the most dead expansions with nobody playing. I wonder why.
Even FFXIV had content similar to AP in the form of Eureka & Bozja grinds for player power. Endwalker doesn’t have anything like that and guess what? They’re experiencing the same thing over there, with players complaining about a lack of meaningful content outside of raids/m+.
It wasn’t. You had reputations to grind for player power and leveling was a significant part of the game.
You also need to realize that Wrath & modern wow are two completely different games. If players wanted a game like Wrath, Classic WOTLK would be more popular than retail but it isn’t. More players realized that they just had rose tinted glasses on after playing Wrath Classic.
Cataclysm was the only expansion that was just raidlogging, the others weren’t.
Is that why BFA saw record sales right after Legion? Which was followed up by SL which also had record breaking sales? In fact Shadowlands was the fastest selling PC game of all time for a while.
And after one expansion where we had 0 AP grinds, DF sold so few copies that Blizzard put out discounts and 50 different promos to get people back, all of which failed?
It’s not. Look at the participation number in keys & raids. Go out into the open world and see how few players are engaging with the content.
You need to learn how to read between the lines. DF’s subscriber retention is higher, it’s not the same as the player retention. Players with 3, 6 and 12 month subs are counted as retained subscribers even if they only play for 1 month out the sub bundle they bought. Players who log in 2 times a week for raids are counted in that, but I wouldn’t call those players.
To give an extreme example to help illustrate my point. You could have 2 mill subs, but if out of those 2 million, none of them actually logged in to play, would we call the game healthy? It’s certainty still making money. As far as investors and the uppers care, the game’s doing great. But from a player point of view, I would definitely not call that healthy.
Then there’s also the fact that subscriber retention will obviously be higher in DF when the number of players who will never quit wow makes up a much larger percentage of the playerbase than it did in Legion, BFA & Shadowlands. DF on launch had lower participation than Sanctum of Domination did, which is wow’s worst patch.
If DF on launch had the same player numbers that Legion, BFA & SL had on launch the subscriber retention would’ve 100% been lower.
We literally do have 3rd party numbers for raids & some M+ seasons. You can argue that 3rd party numbers aren’t 100% accurate, but you’d be wrong. The RIO tracking for top 0.1% M+ title is so accurate that Blizzard even said to use it as a reference when they first introduced the title in SL. So using the same APL they use for all keys gives us a very clear picture.
It’d also be ridiculous to assume their raid numbers are incorrect when their M+ ones are correct, as stated by Blizzard. Comparing the RIO numbers from older raid tiers to current ones gives us a clear picture as well.
DF on launch, which is by far the most hyped part of an xpac with the highest participation, had the same numbers Sanctum did which is wow’s worst patch.
Now obviously this is only participation for raids & M+ that we can see data from, there’s no numbers for the open world unfortunately. But as a lot of players, not just people like me, have noted the open world in DF is also completely dead.
The only ones denying DF’s low participation are players who want to keep wow as a lobby-game for raid & m+ loggers.
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What kind of AP grind is being proposed here?
An item (say a Trinket) that grows modestly more powerful when you grind some form of currency?
How is this earnt?
Is there a weekly cap?
Is it Account, Class or Spec wide?
What kind of Catch Up is there?
Something similar in terms of power gain that we had in Legion & BFA. I don’t want them to just copy paste what we had, even though that’d be better than what we have right now, but I want to see iteration.
Regardless of the patch they choose, if they choose to reintroduce AP, I hope it’s fully account-wide so you never have to re-farm on alts.
As for catch-up I think the existing catch up we had in Legion & BFA was good. The issue was more that regular players convinced themselves that they needed to grind AP like the WF raiders when they didn’t.
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