That is also the whole problem why it feels so casual currently, more knowledge with better items.
Back then you progressed MC with 1.05 or so.
Also as i did #14 it was always the Bg of the Honor Week. We didnt had AV in this state.
It was inevitable that this would happen…
I agree, Blizz totally ruined it according to me at least. I guess some retail fan got the final vote.
Full cross realm support was never part of vanilla. And Battle groups were added just before TBC hit. This is like retail without resources, and it really sucks!
No we had Cross realms slightly before the TBC pre patch.
We would have needed many changes to make this a better experience in my opinion.
Racials from Horde nerfed, Travel Hubs for Alliance buffed, Exploits in Bgs fixed, and the Honor/hour from AV are just the things that needed the most attention.
Come on, most servers are very heavily horde based. 2 hour+ queues like my vanilla experience? No thanks.
I just don’t understand why blizzard chose this. Many realms could easily support no crossrealm at all, and you could put some smaller ones into battlegroups - there wouldn’t be queue issues, and you’d have more of a community feel to it.
The current Xrealm system is nothing like the Xrealm system in vanilla…
despite what some “bUt tHeRe wAs cRoSsrEaLm iN vaNilLA” posters might like to tell you on here.
There were no full cross realm support in Vanilla. It was added to the game first in Cataclysm. Battlegroups made of like 5 realms shared the same queue system.
The servers being way smaller then made the total at 500-10k depending on time. That’s a signficant difference compared to the +200k you have now.
This would also prevent the “premades”.
You should also know that Battlegroups weren’t added until the last months of Vanilla and by default be questioned to be a part of it.
Actually that is false, it’d still be possible. It would depend on the servers themselves though, so differences from server to server would exist.
True that, but at least it would be trackable. 
And now it is actually possible to move characters. Or will be soon at least.
Like in another Thread posted we had 20 Realms in our/mine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070211192629/http://www.wow-europe.com/de/info/basics/battlegroups.html
These were also not small servers. It was the biggest and most competitive one in germany.
Sure the scale might now be bigger, but i dont have any metrics of how many people are now playing PvP compared to back then and server size etc.
But we had it in Vanilla, a few month before the TBC Prepatch.
Wrong. This also happened on privat servern with 10k to 20k people.
Its 15 years but i think we had a few Month before we had the Month with the TBC talents for PvP.
Many of the people Ranking up now hated it on my server because it got more competetive against other realms.
It was pretty lay back after everyone had their Ranks on the horde side and no good grp played anymore.
Then boom cross realm happened and they had to step up.
2.5-3k is the general consensus of vanilla realms.
Over 10k now in classic.
Yeah remember things like 3 to 5k, guess the 5k was later in Woltk at peak servers.
So back the we had like 60k people on a battle group. I dont think that this is much more than 200k now with todays technology.
But i mean more like how many of these play PvP on what faction.
I only estimate 3-5 Horde player to 1 alliance player due the Q times. I cant be sure.
Also even knowing my Server size and the others in the realm pool does not show what % of that played PvP. Of these pepople how many casual and how many wanted to rank etc.
There are 43 classic realms in the EU matchmaking pool.
Assuming an average of only 5k per server, that’s still 215,000 players you can possibly be matched up with & against.
Also, in wotlk they had raised the population caps a lot of times already over the years. So they were smaller in vanilla.
The sheer differences of the matchmaking pools are insane when you compare then to now.
Yes but that does not change anything, in my opinion, about the possibility to Q together as Alliance, as long as we have the same ratio.
Makes no difference if we have 60k players with a ratio of 4:1 or 200k players with a ratio of 4:1.
correct me if i overlooked something. its just the scale that is bigger now.
Did anyone even say anything about that…?
Fact is, crossrealm in itself makes it too anonymous. Even the super large realms by themselves makes it too anonymous for our brains to remember people on average. It breeds toxic outbursts. And it actively discourages teamwork. This is part of why you see a difference in the average level of cooperation between pugs compared to the premades, as well as in the communication itself.
The same effect can be seen in retail as well.
While this may sound contradictory since there are also xrealm premades, they aren’t matched together randomly on the spot with no mental acceptance of each other when they organize prior to the BG itself. Then people recognize each other’s names since they’re in the same premade, and they’re more encouraged to communicate as well.
You can read more about it in this thread:
in this link as well.
Didnt know what exactly you wanted to convoy. Now i do, after I asked.
Agree on everything.
Not on this one to be particular.
That is again where i agree. You form bonds and a social circle. Pity that its not on the same server.
Ok, go to retail where the effect is more solidified.
Let me know how much teamwork you can manage in a random dungeon group. Or an unrated bg. Or in rated arenas with a pugged teammate. Or in rated BGs with a pugged team.
Let me know how that all works out, then think back on what it was like when you knew each other in such content for comparison’s sake.
Also let me know how many turned “toxic”, and how quickly and for how little.
If you need practical examples, then that’s the best way to do it. You should already be somewhat aware of this already though, since u’ve actually played retail for years now.
Possible. I just Q Arena and logg of since MoP. Never Qd a Bg anymore.
Here the range is wide, but also the player pool got drained over the last expansions. I have 1 set Partner since TBC and we Pug the 3rd one.
Here i saw both sides of the spectrum in pug.
Unicorns doesn’t invalidate the mechanisms of the social psychology behind it all. But yes, unicorns do exist as well.
PS:
You need to do it with an entire team pugged, not when you and your pal lead the third. The social dynamics needs to be that of a strangers’ atmosphere, like in this xrealm matchmaking we have now in Classic. Not one where you bring in a third wheel to your duo.
And then keep repeating this test over and over so you don’t base it on just that one sample.
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