Blizzard you want more people to raid ? Change the Mythic raiding raid ID rules

Community General Discussion
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There is a very easy solution to Blizzard’s disappointement that too few players raid.

That solution is twofold : 1) get rid of the raid ID for mythic raid (make it like heroic raiding) and 2) open mythic raiding for cross-realm cross-faction groups from day 1 when mythic raiding is available.

Indeed, the reason while most players I know are not raiding is that Mythic raiding is unavailable to them, not necessarily because of skill, but because of calendar constraints and the necessity to belong to a mythic raiding guild. And if you’re only considering heroic raiding, then it makes no sense from a gear point of view. So you’ll outgear the heroic raid from doing mythic +15 and above and then do you heroic raid once for whatever reward there is.

If you get rid of the specific mythic raiding ID and make it available to cross-realm from day 1, you’ll get the following benefits. First, players will actually be able to try mythic raiding at the time when they are available for raid and outside of a raiding guild. Second, raid leaders will be able to easily find players for each role they need, kick the players who haven’t done their research and/or don’t know how to play, which means the group can actually try (and wipe at first) rather than be stuck, sometimes for weeks, for lack of a complete team. Thirdly, the player base will learn the tactics and tricks from day 1, and a common culture of raid strategy will be created.

Let’s not fool ourselves, gearing up is the engine of an MMO and the only reason people are gonna play a specific content on a long-term basis is if it brings them the best loot. If Blizzards implements these new measures, the number of players raiding will boom significantly.

Are there drawbacks to my plan ? Well three reasons were given to me why it shouldn’t be done, but I don’t think any one is valid.

First, it might give the opportunity to a cross-realm not guilded group the opportunity to get a first raid kill. While I doubt that such a group could beat an organized pro guild, well, what if they did ? Wouldn’t they deserve their victory ?

Second, it would kill mythic raiding guilds apart from the very top ones. That would probably happen indeed, but is it really a bad thing ? If the number of players actually raiding in mythic is increased tenfold, the loss of power of a few guilds isn’t really a problem in my view.

Thirdly, it could lead to more boosting mythic end bosses by reducing the price and making boosting available to the least populated realms. Once again, this might be the case but is it really a problem : if there are 10x more people raiding mythic and 10x more people getting boosted, that doesn’t really change the equation.

In conclusion : Blizzard if you want people to do your raids give them the actual logistical opportunity to raid mythic by removing the artificial barriers stemming from mythic raid ID and the absence of cross-realm mythic raiding for the relevant part of an expansion.

2 Likes
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Not really, no one decks out in a full set of vault gear that quickly, it would require insane rng to even manage that in 2 months,

To simultaniously heroic raid and then do m+ is the fastest gearing method, its very worthwhile heroic raiding for base gear progression realistically.

Alot of people will heroic raid before they manage +15s. So heroic raid will feed heavily into their ability to do m+15s. Just like people spammed pvp at the beginning of this expansion.

The reason raid popularity is not down to accessibility, your right it isnt down to skill that always prevents it.

However pug enviroments rip the communication out of the team and u wont manage that difficulty without communication. Guilds wipe over 100 times to these bosses, and the fights will be that much harder in a pug enviroment.

Raiding is built for the WF at that difficulty which means its balanced on perfect communication.

The difficulty as a whole would need to fall for tbat content to be pugable.

SL was simply tne breaking point. Raids got too difficult chasing the WF to try make it as hard as possible for tthem. 9.1 slaughtered heroic guilds.

1 Like
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Firstly you are right about that s3 was the breaking point of difficulty, blizzard said that themselves, next raid mythic wont be that hard tbh.

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Firstly that difficulty isnt for PuG groups in my point of vieuw, secondly mythic should be challenging, does the reward the same as the effort and organising those runs shortly = no. So no i hope blizzard doesnt change the ID for mythic it should be for guilds only.

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I honestly don’t see why the can not do this. If RWF is important to them then open it up after.

This should not be a problem. Even way back if you wanted to join a pug group, comms was mandatory. So its pretty simple put a group together make comms mandatory, if said player is not prepared to get on comms, simply remove them and replace. It is only really when raids are on farm that most groups do not mind if you do not have comms. As the expectation is that you should know what you are doing. Still you often get that one chancer that will join and ruin it for all.

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While true, its hard to have the level of communication required met in a pug, while sure some do pug mythic raiding, theres very few who would manage it.

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I like how you think that mythic id are the problem while 99 percents of pugs couldnt kill normal lords this week :slight_smile:

Problem with raiding Has been the same for years. IT overtuned its overdesigned and and to long się not fun .

M+ compared to raiding is amazing fun experience.

But since ion and devs have RAID supremacy fetish IT is what IT is

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I would only write this to SLs raids really, prior raids werent actually that bad really, SL was a spike in raid difficulty above the norm massively.

And its time requirement is fine most of us im m+ pour a TON more hours into m+ then we ever would raid. The problem is by nature anyone who works a job without static hours simply csnnot attend.

Policeman
Fireman
Doctors.
Nurses
Paramedics
Retail workers.

And every other type of shift work heck snd in alot of cases parents of new kids realistically cant attend static raid hours, because their not garunteed to exactly when and where they can be.

Not many can dedicate 3-4 hours 2/3 times a week uninterupted, on a static rotar and thats the issue raiding is fighting.

M+ wins primarily down to its doable, log on apend 30 minutes, get a reward and ur done and can leave the pc once again, M+ gave alot of people a way to progress while in circumstances that dont allow raiding to be viable for them

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That is a personal opinion.
M+ is boring beyond measure for me personally.

I think this is more the case because ppl stopped raiding.
Shadowlands is completed for everyone who did raids at a descent rate.

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So what? Let them try, if they want to, and maybe fail, due to bad comms.

Options are always better in life than forced paths.

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Im not against it happening, im simply saying it isnt the solution to raid popularity.

Theres a reason every other mmorpg has moved to raid bosses instead of full sized raids these days.

Attending a raid schedule is beyond possibility for alot of people, so by default your excluding a portion of players because of that.

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Remove the Trash.
Remove the mythic ID.
Make descent seasons, never again rotating season 4 stuff.

Trash takes longer then bosses…

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Nah this is the case of blizz puting mechanics that majority of playerbase cannot deal with even on normal . Because they are not being tested by normal people only my mythic raiders. And then fights liek lords happen . Something which in organized guidl is notvacproblem in pugs is unkillable even on normal . Like who in Blizzard thought that putting impostor mechanic whcih without everyone having weakauras is borderline impossible to do. Same like peopel getting dispeled and then instantky rwgaining green circles because you cannot expect non mythic raiders to deal with mechanics like this properly.

Stupid design is stupid design .

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They made it very clear from the start, this mechanic was ment to challenge the addon and WA creators.

Sure that’s a terrible way to do things, raiding without addons/WA’s is just as bad these days.

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u know how many raid mythic??? 1% of wow players or something similar…

u know what u need to increase raid participation? simple fights, no required addons and spaceship UIs to do a single boss

less one shot mechanics

less loot diference btween mythic and normal

etc

17

What?

/10 chars

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This to me was another major factor in raid hindrance. Folks don’t want to spend hours killing trash - they want to get in kill bosses and get out in under 1hr.

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If you want more people to raid introduce proper storylines for villains. Game has hundreds of raidbosses and 90% are only inside their static raid dungeons. Also add solo raids and proper queing systems. You mentioned Mythics are not meant to be pugged. Thats because you think you are good raiders, but you are not.

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I joined WoW at end of MoP, nuubed around until end of WoD started earning AOTCs and KSMs at start of Legion. Ever since i’ve taken a lot of pride in earning them every season until 2nd half of SL.

Most of what motivates me to do content, aside from the AOTC and KSM achievements, is the loot. So I will happily spam m+ over and over again to earn loot and valor. The valor system also motivates me to help out guildies on lower keys because I can still earn the right loot that can be upgraded and the same amount of valor.

Today, I spam m+ and no longer bother with raiding because most of the time my raiding experience (outside of active guilds) is just waiting around for far longer than actual playing.

If I join a raid as pug:

  • I spend easily over 50% of that time waiting around. It’s time wasted waiting for pugs to join or running back to boss, waiting for pugs to rebuff…

  • Instant wipe mechanics that cut the fun unexpectedly short are becoming more common. They really kill the mood, especially when they are broadly out of your control because some pug f***ed up.

  • I, and the vast majority of pugs have NO desire to get on Discord with randoms. They tend to be toxic, unfriendly. Much rather listen to Youtube, podcast, Discord with friends or music.

  • Tbh, raids have been getting progressively harder and more complex. While the challenge of it can be it’s own reward… only for so long. I don’t want to do homework before getting into a raid…

In short, the modern raiding experience feels like a lot of waiting around and unexpected ends to the fights because of too instant wipe mechanics when someone doesn’t soak a thing or click a thing. They feel unforgiving and the fun short.

Going through all of this and not getting loot feels especially bad. I ask myself why did I bother with all this?

21

I thought mythic raiders did it for the challenge so what’s the problem with that idea?