Blood DK need m+ buff

Classes Death Knight
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I play protection warrior and blood dk. I notice a huge difference in m+. My warrior takes almost no damage and it is very chill to play m+!

On my DK im on the edge of my seat all the time. 1 deathstrike missed and I can die in
2 seconds.

Once I get the rotation going things seem to get better. But never as smooth as a protection warrior.

We need some help for the first few seconds in combat after pull. I can understand the idea is that Dk can heal themselve. But right now the balance is not there at all.

Please read this message blizzard!

2 Likes
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Ds and bloodshield nerfs… then also nerfing dancing rune weapon… and we got only 20% armor from boneshield? Class tuning team are a joke…

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BDK needs to be removed from M+. They require constant attention and randomly die within a GCD.
The whole “watch their runic power” thing isn’t enough. In 8+ keys their HP literally jumps 3x from 1% to 100 within 1 second.

1 Like
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LOL constant attention? BDK is literally the only tank that doesn’t need a healer, if they need you to heal them, they are playing the game with their feet.

The missed Death Strike into death is true though, you’ll find ignorants who never played it saying “just death strike ez tank lmao” but BDK is actually hard to play without dying.

Luckily they have a cheat death every 4 minutes.

Yeah but that’s none of your concern, it’s just how the spec is designed so don’t stress about it, if they die it’s 100% their fault.

I think playing the spec would help you understand better the strengths and weaknesses.

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I think you may perhaps get the wrong impression about group content with that statement. Blizzard for starts have made adjustments this season, this expansion to make sure healers heal everyone “including” the tank no matter what class they maybe tanking with. If you think your statement is correct. Then I think you’re not observing everything within reason to help your groups or individuals within them. It’s this thought process of selfish interest alone what is constantly further driving pugs and group content down the abyss. If I run out of DR and RP as a BDK and or getting hammered to death regardless (It happens in higher keys more than most none tank players realize). Either by design or human error which will happen no matter what to anyone! I hope to expect help from external sources of a team.

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Doing “group content” doesn’t mean that you have to rely on your group for doing your job, as a BDK you are 100% responsable for your own life, if you pull too much and you get to the point where you can’t generate RP fast enough or you get one shot then that’s your mistake, aka your responsability, for overpulling.

This doesn’t mean you can’t get help from your party, of course if you’re getting smacked hard you will appretiate an Ironbark from a R.Druid because that gives you some breathing room, but this is not required for your normal performance as BDK as opposed to other tanks.

And yes, Blizzard reduced tank survivability on all tanks across the board with the intention of making them reliant on healers, and that’s been accomplished for the most part, but BDK is the exception, they are still 100% self-sufficient, as it should be, that’s their niche after all.

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I have no problem throwing a hot on a tank now and then, or a heal during tank busters. I can heal a druid, or warrior who isn’t playing perfectly but a BDK pulling a large pack gives me anxiety because there’s literally nothing I can do to assist them.
Brewmaster has stagger and is constantly losing HP, which is great for me because my fistweaving and hots on him are constantly healing. It’s a perfect synergy.
When I try to heal a BDK it’s:
Overheal
Overheal
Dead

Saying I should just ignore them isn’t a solution. They do die. a LOT. And my goal is to finish keys not to assign blame.

2 Likes
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The reason I made a post about this subject is since I play both prot warrior and blood dk I can clearly see the difference.

Listen… There are blood dk’s doing 14+ timed. So it clearly can be done.
Im not a world class player so I make rotation mistakes all the time I’m sure.
But who isnt ?

Blood dk needs alot more knowledge, planning and skill to accomplish the SAME level of play as a prot warrior.
How can it be if u dont time a deathstrike right u can die in 2 seconds ?
Deathstrike also requires resources in the first place! And while we are building runic power we also have to somehow keep boneshield stacks up ???
Global cooldown? Anyone?
This is why once we are passed the first few seconds or so things seem to get better. We have some boneshield stacks, we have runic power and the healer can chill a bit more.
Too some extent this is the thing that actually attracts me to play Bdk.
Feels more rewarding if done right!

In the meanwhile prot warriors just keep shield block and possible ignore pain up and roll there head onto there keybindings to succeed xD

Blizzard can keep Blood dk a higher skill required tank for my part.
But like I said on my original post, the balance is far far off.

I didnt play in dragonflight. Last expansion I played was shadowlands.
Back then we had deathstrike to give a shield when used at max health. This was much better imo. But maybe this will make DK too powerful again.
Anyway some middle ground buff would be nice though to smooth things out a bit more. I’m sure the developers can come up with something.

2 Likes
9

I used to be in camp “if BDK dies, it is their fault”. Now I am more in camp: “If a overgeared BDK dies, it is their fault”. Simply because with the DS change, a BDK can no longer fullheal and bloodshield mitigate away the scary situations. A BDK can live many things, yet they also die really easily - especially if a healer “snipes” your Death Strike healing, denying you your bloodshield gain. You lose all the value built up into the WotN. You are kind of killed by your healer… it is, odd.

As you live or die by your CD usage now, BDK simply is very unforgiving. Let’s push aside that you as a BDK can very easily get sync-whiteswinged to death, 100 to 0. I think its more a problem for the average BDK that if your Death Strike heal is wasted by your healer; you cant rebound from there on without a big button.

If they want healers to heal the BDK, as it is designed as a goal to be nowdays, then at least grant the BDK their lost Bloodshield value from any source of healing received.

Currently, there is a situation of the healer must keep track and understand all the BDKs CDs and have situational awareness of when a BDK is at 30% health and in danger, or when the BDK is at 30% health and fine. Should the BDK be healed at 80%, or would it be an issue for the BDK down the line 3 sec from now?

It is counterproductive. I rather they just put the BDKs life into the hands of the tank player again. This half measure just isn’t fun gameplay. Either BDK is a selfsustain machine in all situations, or it should be a tank that gets healed as any other.

Perhaps they could try to be creative. Make BDKs healthbar go into the “negative” as a healing absorb. Only killing the BDK after it reaches a certain point. Not punishing the BDK for healing itself, nor the healer for healing. The BDK will be responsible for their healthbar and healer will have the task of helping when the healing absorb is up. Something other than this current mess, that really frustrates the casual player population. “Why is the tank dying, why do I need to spam heal him, should I not? Now he died - that was my fault? Everyone is dying, tank is dying, wait - no, yes, wait, what?!” is not fun for anyone.

I think that is the point Bobman is pointing at. Healers and, many tanks, just want predictability and sleek gameplay. Not having to track, think and pray about how events will unfold. Having BDK buffed - doesnt work, as it is already good at what it does. It is how it does it that needs to change. Or, they could just revert the Death Strike change and everyone is just having fun again. Healers don’t punish DKs as hard, and DKs get to play the minmax gameplay and can confidently tell the healer to not bother about their healthbar.

1 Like
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I understand your frustration as a healer because they are totally different from the other tanks, but like I said, that’s how the spec is designed.

Whether you like it or not, ignoring them (for the most part) is the way to go.

If you don’t like playing with them because they “die a lot” then you are free to refuse to party with them, but I feel like you should at least know that this happens due to the bad pilots, not because the plane is bad.

I think it’s a shame that due to bad experiences you never get to understand how good BDK is and how easy it is for the healer to play around them, but if it’s not your cup of tea and it stresses you then it’s totally fine to play with other tanks.

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I know what you’re otherwise saying, but no matter what this comment is supposed to mean. 100% self-efficient & 100% responsible for there own life? If that was the case they wouldn’t require healing, dispelling, externals, interrupts, slows, stuns, any form of cc etc etc etc from additionally anyone else.

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They don’t… the only “mechanic” a BDK can’t deal with is being stupid and pulling too much, besides that they can handle anything else with literally 2 buttons (Death Strike and AMS)

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Blood DK does feel more like paper than usual this season, mainly because the deadliest thing for tanks in M+ are auto attacks from trash mobs. This is also why Guardian Druid and Prot Warrior feels so good right now. They don’t require 5-6 GCDs to get going into a pull either, and they can generate threat much faster as well.

While I love playing my BDK and all it’s little niche abilities, it’s insanely stressful going into a pull and surviving the first 4-5 seconds, while also getting aggro on everything. I don’t blame anyone for rerolling Druid or Warrior this season, when I have put in twice the effort to get the same results playing BDK.

1 Like
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You have CD’s for that - we have no shield - the first stage of engagement is always the risk point - and - and I’ll say this - that is the healers responsibility not yours - healers have an inbred assumption that they don’t need to pay attention to the Death knight

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I think theBDK issue is trying to DPS and Tank at the same time - if you Heartstrike, Deathstrike and Blood Boil in a steady rotation a weave in your CD’s you should be golden - threat is the same multiplier as any other tank - at Pull you take a big hit

1 Like
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At this Point Prot Warrior is your to Go Tank for Key pushing and it’s not even Close compared to other tanks.

Tank balancing is a mess right now, the Last Minute nerfs in Beta drove a lot of. Players away from tanking.

BDK Rotation is the Most boring, unfun and unrewarding thing Ihave played in a Long Time. The only time BDK felt worse was Shadowlands S1

The Opener Is far to bloated and the only playable Hero talent futher bloats the Opener

DS can activly.kill

I have to use all defensives in every Pull

Healers can Sabotage ne

My DMG is complety Rng

And the initial thread is bad

1 Like
17

What do we think of Runic Power recharging while we’re out of combat? Either to 50% or full.

I can’t imagine it making the spec OP or unbalanced but it would give us at least 1 or 2 Deathstrikes as a ‘safety net’ while we get our setup going. It also won’t affect the spec in combat as it would stop recharging without the normal RP builders.

We can all agree that once we’re set up and have resources built, we are relatively unkillable with proper CD usage. And “needing to use CDs every pack” is the proper way to play the game. Same way DPS players rotate their CDs or Healers doing the same. The only reason some specs like Prot Warrior don’t need CDs every pack is because damage mitigation is their ‘gimmick’, while healing and self-agency is ours. The only time you don’t need to use CDs is if you’re overgeared for the content you’re doing.

Alternatively, buff Rune Tap to justify the rune cost and it should help the start of pulls be a little smoother.

I am by no means a good or efficient BDK player but at 2600io [and ilvl 619], everytime I’ve died in 10/11 keys its been my fault for improper rotation, CD usage, etc.

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They have and will unlikely take any of our suggestions! It’s takes them literal years to do any kind of significant rework of DK. Granted it’s a slightly better layout than previous talent trees. But again it’s got hardly any depth for significant build changes nor have our core systems really been that changed in decades. The class as a whole will likely never be pruned again with it’s GCD bloat and needed ability count. It’s just saft that we use nearly a whole 10 bar of buttons every pull. When most other tanks usually get away with half that count. It’s almost always certain when and if they need to tune down other tanks, it’s BDK will that will get nerfed somehow first and foremost! Even when it “appears” to us it’s close to bottom of the barrel. To them it must get a nerf anyway xD.

1 Like
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Yeah, just a bit of help somehow the first few seconds. Pretty much all deaths for me in M+ is probably in the first 3-5 seconds of a pull.
A couple of ideas:

  • Your runic power will not diminish below 40 while out of combat.
  • While having less than 3 stacks of Bone Shield, you generate 1 ever 10 seconds while out of combat.
  • Bone Shield duration increased to 1 minute, up from 30 seconds.
  • Rune Tap adding 1 bone shield charge
  • The first time you hit an enemy with Death and Decay, you will also apply Blood Plague to them
  • The first time you hit an enemy with Blood Boil, you take 20% reduced damage from them for 4 seconds.
  • Buffing Blood Draw talent just for Blood, making the ICD to 1 minute, and increasing the dmg reduction to 20%
  • Purgatory will cause your next Death Strike within X amount of seconds to be free

Not saying we should have all of this at the same time, but just anything to smooth out our openers.

1 Like
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