BL/PI but for crit and/or mastery?

[Jóóló-drakthul]

@Uda-uldum

I totally agree with you. But lets put PI aside for a second and talk about BL.

Can you agree with me for a minute that having BL is such an advantage that if your goal is to help your TEAM succeed (in any form of content), then if your team does NOT have BL its a massive disadvantage?

The situation with PI in M+ is dumb IMO. Only 1 class has access to PI, and only a handful of classes benefit from it to such a degree. Like I said, the Spriest/Demo combo can strip 4/5 minutes from a M+ run with respect to not having that combo.

What will your TEAM do to succeed? Play better, gear up, ect… OR, will 2 DDs friends rerol to Spriest/Demo to have better chances at SUCCESS? That is something that I fundamentally disagree with. People should play any class they want and have a fair shot at success.

Either remove PI, or give PI buff to more classes. As they did with BL, where even IF you dont have a class that can cast BL, you still can buy drums for a mini-BL so make sure everyone has a fair shot at success.

Removing PI is kinda extreme.
Because once again we are talking about punishing people because of high end gamers.

I think as someone already said in this thread give different kind of BUFF to a different kind of classes.
Shadowpriest and Demo lock that’s a good combo right when you have it in your team
so imagine that you can create more of that with different classes.

[Uda-uldum]

@Jóóló-drakthul

Removing PI is kinda extreme.
Because once again we are talking about punishing people because of high end gamers.

Yes, removing it is extreme. However the alternative to give it to more classes begs the question: and WHY? Because we already have BL which is the same thing basically. Its not a distinct skill like battle res that has no equivalent.

And about high end gamers that is not totally true. The advantage it gives in M+ is across all difficulties. That 4/5 min advantage I am talking about is true in a 5+, 10+, or 30+. Whatever difficulty.

[Kretías-tarren-mill]

@Jóóló-drakthul

Shadowpriest and Demo lock that’s a good combo right when you have it in your team
so imagine that you can create more of that with different classes.

The problem is that Blizzard balances around that kind of combo. Demo Locks can sing a song about that.

And if your spec gets balanced around the buffs from a another class then thats just a recipe for disaster.

[Gorbathust-draenor]

@Kretías-tarren-mill

And if your spec gets balanced around the buffs from a another class then thats just a recipe for disaster.

That’s very true and generally quite a broader issue this game has. Many class/specs still suffer from the usual design mistake of “this feels a bit lame now, but once you stack 30% of X and 50% of Y you can have this build and then only is it viable”. You’d hope they’ll eventually design all class/spec combos to feel fun without even having to consider stats.

@Uda-uldum

Either remove PI, or give PI buff to more classes. As they did with BL, where even IF you dont have a class that can cast BL, you still can buy drums for a mini-BL so make sure everyone has a fair shot at success.

I think the latter is a better idea, giving more of these “mandatory” abilities to more classes. That being said, what I’m hoping the introduction of crit/mastery equivalent for more classes will bring, is way more viable combinations.

It’s impossible to not have a meta in a game like wow. But we can reduce the gaps. The idea here is that there are going to be me so many viable combos, the effect of the metal will be reduced. Instead of (just throwing numbers for the example’s sake) SPriest/DemoLock bing 15% better than other combos, they’ll only be 3-5% better.

[Dralkharn-draenor]

@Uda-uldum

Mark my words that Augmentation Evoker will be a disaster to balance.

The way dungeons and raids are build does not allow for a “support” spek. They made the spek before the content, and so, it will be clownfest to balance that spek.

As in: Either its a requirement for some content allowing you to outright cheese it completly, OR, its better to just get a pure dps.

Or: If you have a Augmentation with X or Y class, its BROKEN, but with Z class its underperforming.

Mark my words… PI is a problem in the game. Making a whole class with ONLY PI/BL stuff as the center spot of its rotation is gonna be beyond broken.

Damn your posts really have a large amount of words.
Thoughts on the other side…

@Kretías-tarren-mill

The problem is that Blizzard balances around that kind of combo. Demo Locks can sing a song about that.

Demo has good sims even without PI steroids, and anyway destro performs better in current tier, I don’t know what the hell people talk about because demo sims are above average, not even atrociously bad so what’s the problem when you can perform well with demo even without PI buff? Well of course problem is that warlocks are a bunch of whiny crybabies and love to complain Everytime when lock doesn’t have S tier performance in every existing content.
Considering that blizzard will add more API hooks for damage tracking and we’ll have ability to distinguish sources of damage this case should be closed

[Faubert-mograine]

I doubt they will implement such a thing.

As someone mentioned - haste can be felt because you cast/attack faster.
Introducing different raid wide stat boosts would create one of the problems:

• if only one raid wide stat buff can be cast - it would make players argue which to cast because they want their bis stat, after all someone would always be punished
• if they would stack - it would create situations where certain boss mechanic can be avoided with stacked cooldowns → so to avoid that that mechanic would have to be balanced around best scenario → which would punish groups without all buffs; also it would push class design more into “dps during cds - outside wet noodle” which I hate

The only thing I think of - there should be way to choose what stat raid wide cooldown boosts for you. Somewhere in UI or just picking highest stat. That would be good middle ground.

[Gorbathust-draenor]

Yeah there’s defo some interesting points you raise.

I think the tuning is an ongoing and evolving matter. They need to tune things with every variable in mind. They add a buff, class/spec, things need to get tuned accordingly. They’re clearly still working on that and probably will be for ever.

now as for that:

@Faubert-mograine

also it would push class design more into “dps during cds - outside wet noodle” which I hate

I’m very familiar as I play dk, and yeah I’d like this to not get accentuated, though I don’t see how a 10 minute raid wide buff affects class design. They’re 2 distinct separate issues.

@Faubert-mograine

The only thing I think of - there should be way to choose what stat raid wide cooldown boosts for you. Somewhere in UI or just picking highest stat. That would be good middle ground.

So you mean this on the level of the player? So let’s say, the rogue clicks crit, but the warlock clicks haste, just like loot specialisation? And the the BL type ability just gives you that stat?

Seems like a cool idea, though surely this would make BL casters even more mandatory in dungeon groups.

My hopes are that there are so many different buff combinations, that no matter what comp you have, you will have something good. Sure there’s always going to be a meta, but the goal is to reduce its effect.