BM suggestions

Classes Hunter
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So it’s fairly evident that the spec isn’t in a great spot right now, being a single target spec that doesn’t even excel in single target is pretty sad given that it does essentially no AoE dps. I wanted to float an idea and see what people think or atleast open the conversation. This is because although the single target gameplay is fine the AoE gameplay is as 2 dimensional as its possible to be.

Idea

  • make kill command transmit through beast cleave, this has 2 benefits. First) it means the BM tier set gains some level of meaningful interaction with AoE because even with the empowered multi shot its still not overly efficient to cast kill command. Second) it adds some more depth to the AoE rotation with on larger packs consists of Spam multi shot.
  • the spec is likely to need numbers tuning on top of this because a single target spec doing low single target dps is in a bad spot still.

On a side note please bring back the ability to respec pets for no other reason than there are so many cool pet appearances that even with being able to respec them might not be 100% optimal, but I would use on occasion because the loss wouldn’t be significant. Where currently if a pet is cunning other than niche circumstances you will never use that pet appearance in PvE content because you loose out on to much in order to have it.

2 Likes
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some suggestions of my own.

  • as of now, beast master hunter does not scale with haste.
    haste also does not affect his pets in any way, which is 50% of his dmg. making it mostly a wasted stat.
    whenever bloodlust is cast. everyones damage skyrockets. well exept for yours. that stays more or less the same. ofcourse you can cast kill command more often. but that is about it.
    you will get left in the dust, but if pets were to scale with the owners haste. that would impact your damage output a lot and make it a more viable class.

  • In my opinion barbed shot has too many roles. it is a stacking buff, focus generation, aoe damage (stomp) and a bleed.
    I would like to see stomp moved to a seperate ability or multishot. this gives the ability to use stomp whenever you want instead of whenever available. this also affects our rotation greatly and gives us the option to aoe instead of single target with the occasional multishot.
    also i’d like to see barbed shot get a flat amount of damage. this makes spamming barbed shot for focus generation feel a lot less bad, you’ll actually deal damage instead of refresh a bleed over and over again.

  • bestial wrath, oh boy a meaningless spam whenever available buff. the increase in damage it gives makes beastmaster a viable class, the big difference is, when its down beastmaster underperforms and when its time to shine we have nothing to add, no long cd, use it well kinda abilities, just keep using the same rotation, the same dmg you deal to all the other trash mobs. that just makes me sad.
    i would suggest giving a portion of this buff permanently. and also keep it as a long cooldown which isnt reduced by anything, giving meaning to the ability.

  • exotic beasts. why? just delete this feature it has no added value other than an nuance for survival spec.

  • pet specs, currently every pet deals the same damage and there is no reason other than it looks cool to pick any pet that isnt ferocity. the lifesteal it provides combined with bloodlust is just the best choice in every situation.
    either remove it completely or give ferocity pets more damage, less tankyness and give tenacity pets more tankyness and less damage and make cunning a balanced mix.
    let pets feel damage from aoe abilities, pets are currently just wailing away at the boss when everyone else is in hiding during a dodge/kill mechanic. give importance to controlling the pets movement.
    this also gives us a reason to use mend pet other than solo content, currently pet is either full hp or dead in a mythic or raid.
    remove bloodlust from the ferocity pets and give it to the hunter itself. making other pets a viable option during mythics or raids.

i’d like to see your opinions on this and why it would or wouldn’t work.
and maybe some suggestions of your own.

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I agree with some of this and it has some interesting ideas although I feel like they might need a little tweaking but it’s interesting. The only think I disagree with is the oppinion on ferocity pets. The only time you would use a ferocity pet is if bloodlust is needed, any other time it’s tenacity because 5% health + 20% defensive (yes its a bad defensive), is much better than 15% leech on a class where 50% of its dps is pets.

I understand what you are suggesting about bestial wrath but on a counterpoint it does atleast avoid suffering from the “outside my burst window I feel like I’m doing nothing”.

The main issue and what I was suggesting was a fairly minimalist solution to dealing with problems without needing anything major reworking.

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i must also disagree on the tierset not being usefull, the tierset is amazing. empowered beastcleave is epic, you can instead of cast 2 abilities in between multishot now cast 8 abilities freeing up a lot of time to deal single target damage, and also maintain barbed shot.
spamming multishot is bad, multishots only purpose is to buff your pets with beast cleave. other than that, dont touch that ability. and now you dont have to cast it every 4 secs.

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That’s not true though. Unless you are refreshing the duration of frenzy on an AoE pack you should pretty much just cast multi shot it is your highest damaging abbility in an AoE situation and generally on AoE you just want to do area damage not push single target while doing even less AoE.

The only exception to this is 2 target cleave where previously it was optimal to just do single target dps and not even bother applying beast cleave because it was an inefficient cast, where now it is optimal to apply it and let it run for 10 seconds.

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I actually was memeing the multi shot but our AoE dps is so poor anyway that I suppose its not a good joke…

The pet thing however is as simple as this, healing doesn’t save you from spike damage but higher health pool and a minor defensive might, especially on BM hunter where you don’t leech anywhere near as much as most other dps with the same % of it because 50%+ of your dps isn’t you and so therefore doesn’t count. You will also only have 15% leech in dungeons because in most raid encounters you will want killer cobra not aspect of the beast but the advised pet spec is tenacity, there are certain other pets that are niche useful eg. Devilsaw for grievous wounds, bloodlust pets if noone else has one… but running the leech as a default is a bad plan in any higher content because hunter has just god aweful survivability outside of turtle and damage spikes will just kill you.

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It does. Your pet inherits 100% of your haste as well.

It’s also a CDR for Bestial Wrath. Not really sure why this is a problem though. Why, in your mind, does it amount to too many roles/functions?

Having said that, in Dragonflight, I hope they bring back the choice we had between what is now Barbed Shot, and the previous iteration of Dire Beast. I liked the sub-theme it provided, and I liked that it allowed us to have 2 fairly distinct ways to further explore the spec.

It would more or less just become a “press-on-CD ability”. I do agree that BM needs more in terms of AoE, much due to the fact that currently, AoEing isn’t much to speak of for BM. Mostly, it’s just about keeping a passive buff up while continuing with your regular priorities. I like to think that there’s much more that can be done to make AoEing for BM more effective, and fun at the same time.

Things like Kill Command dealing damage through Beast Cleave as well.
A Murder of Crows could also be included there for some needed burst potential. Note that I here would want AMoC to be a baseline ability/or a class-wide talent, with options to further improve it through talents for BM.

BM has, for a lot of its history, been about empowering yourself and your pets through various buffs. Is it the most engaging mechanic? In the current iteration, not really. But they can do the same thing here, by adding ways to further enhance your gameplay, through additional improvements to Bestial Wrath.

What nuance? Survival can’t use them.

This entirely depends on the situation. As an example, if you do group-based PvE, if you already have Lust provided by someone else, the better option will often be to use a Tenacity-pet. Your choice of pets these days, aside from appearances, mostly depend on what utility you want.

I definitely want us to be able to change pet specs again though, like in Legion.

Some things, I’ve already touched on above here, but prior to the announcement for Dragonflight, I’ve put out a concept of my own for BM, with changes I’d like to see for the spec. Ofc it needs to be adapted to fit the new talent system etc in DF.

Remember that any specific numbers written are just there to give context/further the concept. Obviously some testing/tuning would be required to make it work in-game.

Bullet point-version/list of changes

Core Abilities

  • Reduce the Focus cost of Kill Command by 5 for each enemy you hit with Multi-Shot.
  • Make A Murder of Crows into a baseline ability for this spec(BM). Same base funcionality/design(more options through talents).

Major Cooldown

  • Add a Focus cost-reduction to other abilities during BW, when it’s active. Similar to the Legion-lego effect(Roar of the Seven Lions).
  • Remove Aspect of the Wild entirely.

Mastery Bonus

  • Make Mastery slightly more effective by adding a scaling component for the damage bonus granted by Bestial Wrath. See the full concept link below for specifics.

Passive Effects

  • Make Animal Companion a passive choice for us, one that does not affect our damage but rather is just a cosmetic option. Again, see the full concept for specifics.
  • Extend the duration of Beast Cleave from 4 sec up to 5, to allow for some leeway in terms of maintenance and ability usage.
  • Make Kill Command benefit from Beast Cleave, dealing reduced damage to nearby enemies.
  • Increase the proc chance of Wild Call from 20% up to 25%.

Utility & Defensives (Class-wide)

  • [Posthaste] - Should become a baseline effect.
  • [Master’s Call] - Should be reverted back to a baseline ability.
  • [Pet Specializations] - Make Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning changeable for individual pets again, like it worked in Legion.
  • [Revive Pet] - Preferably, reduce the cast time down to 2 seconds again.
  • [Camouflage] - Should be reverted back to a baseline ability.

This section also includes some changes to talents that focus on utility. See the full concept below for specifics.

Talents

  • Change BM talents, in addition to what’s mentioned above, in several ways to allow for more interesting and impactful choices to be possible. Some talents are more or less useless and have been so for a very long time.
    This section covers changes/replacements to multiple talents so check the talent-section of the full concept below for details.

Core Abilities

[Cobra Shot] - 35 Focus - Instant cast
A quick shot causing X Physical damage.
Reduces the cooldown of Kill Command by 1 sec.

[Kill Command] - 30 Focus - Instant cast - 7.5 sec cooldown
Give the command to kill, causing your pet to savagely deal X Physical damage to the enemy.

[Barbed Shot] - Instant cast - 12 sec recharge - 2 Charges
Fire a shot that tears through your enemy, causing them to bleed for X damage over 8 sec.

Sends your pet into a frenzy, increasing attack speed by 30% for 8 sec, stacking up to 3 times.

Generates 20 Focus over 8 sec.

[Multi-Shot] - 40 Focus - Instant cast
Fires several missiles, hitting up to 5 targets within 8 yards of your current target for X Physical damage.

The Focus cost of your next Kill Command is reduced by 5 for each enemy you hit with Multi-Shot.

Casting Multi-Shot activates Beast Cleave(Passive)

[A Murder of Crows] - 30 Focus - Instant cast - 1 min cooldown
Summons a flock of crows to attack your target, dealing X Physical damage over 20 sec.

If the target dies while under attack, A Murder of Crows’ cooldown is reset.

Class-wide abilities

[Kill Shot] - 10 Focus - Instant cast - 10 sec recharge - 1 Charges
You attempt to finish off a wounded target, dealing X Physical damage.
Only usable on enemies with less than 20% health.

Major Cooldown

[Bestial Wrath] - Instant - 1.5 min cooldown
Sends you and your pet into a rage, instantly dealing X Physical damage to its target, and increasing all damage you both deal by 25% for 20 sec.

Bestial Wrath’s remaining cooldown is reduced by 12 sec each time you use Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.

The Focus cost of all abilities is reduced by X% while Bestial Wrath is active.

Mastery

[Mastery: Master of Beasts] - Increases the damage done by your pets and summoned creatures by X%, and the damage bonus of Bestial Wrath by Y%.

Passive Effects

[Animal Companion] - You may call 1 additional pet to fight for you at all times. The second pet will obey your Kill Command, but cannot use pet family abilities.

If you have two active pets, they both use the same damaging abilities and benefit from the same effects but they only deal 50% of normal damage(each).

Only using 1 pet instead causes that pet to deal 100% of normal damage.

[Beast Cleave] - After you Multi-Shot, your pet’s melee attacks and Kill Command also strike up to 5 other nearby enemy targets for 75% as much for the next 5 sec.

[Exotic Beasts] - You master the art of beast training, teaching you the ability to tame Exotic pets.

[Kindred Spirits] - Increases your maximum Focus and your pet’s maximum Focus by 20.

[Pack Tactics] - Passive Focus generation increased by 100%.

[Wild Call] - Your Auto Shot critical strikes have a 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.

Utility/defensives

Includes all other abilities, such as [Tar Trap][Frost Trap][Aspect of the Turtle][Concussive Shot][Counter Shot][Tranquilizing Shot][Misdirection][Pet Utility][Exhilaration][Disengage][Feign Death], and more.

Note that I would prefer if(on a class-wide basis)

  • [Posthaste] - becomes a baseline effect.
  • [Master’s Call] - comes back as a baseline ability.
  • [Pet Specializations] - Ferocity, Tenacity, and Cunning were changeable.
  • [Revive Pet] - Cast time brought down to 2 seconds again.
  • [Camouflage] - comes back as a baseline ability.

Talents

– Level 15 –

[Killer Instinct] - Kill Command deals 45% increased damage against enemies below 35% health.

Kill Command deals an additional 10% damage against bleeding targets.

[Bloodshed] - 50 yd range - Instant - 1 min cooldown
Command your pet(s) to tear into your target, causing your target to bleed for X damage over 18 sec, and increase all damage taken from your pet(s) by 15% for 18 sec.

[Dire Beast] - (Replaces Barbed Shot) - Instant - 12 sec recharge - 2 Charges
Summons a powerful wild beast that attacks the target for 8 sec.

Generates 20 Focus over 8 sec.

– Level 25 –

[Scent of Blood] - Activating Bestial Wrath grants 2 charges of Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.

[One with the Pack] - Wild Call has a 20% increased chance to reset the cooldown of Barbed Shot/Dire Beast.

Using Barbed Shot/Dire Beast increases your Haste by 5% for 12 sec.

[Feeding Frenzy] - Damage dealt by Barbed Shot is increased by X%. When the periodic damage effect applied by Barbed Shot is refreshed, the remaining damage will be added to the new effect, and it now lasts for a total of 9 sec.

In addition, Frenzy’s duration is also increased to 9 seconds.

  • Dire Frenzy(Requires talent: Dire Beast)
    Each time a Dire Beast is called, the damage dealt by your main pet(s) is increased by 1%.
    When you activate Bestial Wrath, this consumes all stacks of Dire Frenzy and increases the initial damage dealt by Bestial Wrath by 50% for each stack that is consumed.

– Level 30 –

[Trailblazer] - [Natural Mending]

[Bestial Dicipline] - While your pet is active, you and your pet(s) regenerate X% of total health every 3 sec. Healing done to you and your pet(s) is increased by X%.

Damage taken by your pet(s) is reduced by 15%

– Level 35 --

[Spitting Cobra] - Bestial Wrath also summons a Spitting Cobra to aid you in combat for 15 sec. Each Cobra Shot used during Bestial Wrath extends the remaining duration of the Spitting Cobra by 1 sec.

[Thrill of the Hunt] - Barbed Shot/Dire Beast reduces the remaining cooldown of Bestial Wrath by an additional 4 sec.

Barbed Shot/Dire Beast increases your critical strike chance by 5% for 12 seconds.

[Birds of Prey] - Kill Command extends the remaining duration of A Murder of Crows by 2 sec.

Damage of A Murder of Crows is increased by X%.

– Level 40 –

[Born to be Wild] - [Binding Shot]

[Adaptation] - (Replaces Posthaste) Getting hit with an incapacitating effect(Stun/Fear), reduces the remaining cooldown of your Aspect of the Turtle by 30%. This effect has an internal cooldown of X sec.

Aspect of the Turtle is now usable when incapacitated.

When rooted or slowed, the remaining cooldown of Aspect of the Cheetah is reduced by 15 seconds. Aspect of the Cheetah frees you from movement impairing effects and you cannot be slowed below 100% movement speed while it’s active.

– Level 45 –

[Stomp] - When you cast Barbed Shot/Dire Beast, your pet stomps the ground, dealing X Physical damage to all nearby enemies.

[Chimaera Shot] - Instant cast - 15 sec cooldown
A two-headed shot that hits your primary target and another nearby target, dealing X Nature damage to one and X Frost damage to the other.

Generates 10 Focus for each target hit.

[Talon Frenzy] - While Beast Cleave is active, A Murder of Crows affects up to 8 enemies near the primary target.

– Level 50 –

[Aspect of the Beast] - Increases the damage and healing of your pet’s abilities by 30%.

Increases the effectiveness of your pet’s Predator’s Thirst, Endurance Training, and Pathfinding passives by 50%.

[Stampede] - Instant cast - 30 sec duration - 2 min cooldown
Summons 5 of your stabled pets to fight for you for 30 sec. These pets deal X% of normal damage and obey your Kill Command.

Pets summoned by Stampede heal themselves for 200% of the damage they deal.

[Unleashed Fury] - Instant cast - 20 sec cooldown
Sends your pet into a rage, causing it to deal X Physical damage to the target in a flurry of 5 attacks. Damage dealt is increased by X% for every stack of Frenzy the pet currently has.

When this ability is used, your pet lets out a savage roar, increasing your haste by 10% for 12 sec.

  • Bestial Fury(Requires talent: Dire Beast)
    Damage dealt by Dire Beasts during Bestial Wrath is increased by another X%.
    Any Dire Beasts called during Bestial Wrath will have their duration increased by an additonal X sec. This also applies to Dire Beasts who have already been called to fight when Bestial Wrath is activated. Attacks made by Dire Beasts will now also benefit from Beast Cleave, if activated.
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