Desing should improve over the course of game life span, not get worse. Six years ago you had much more freedom in your class/spec customisation, you had option to be viable in any content. And what now? Demo is bad in PvP, Affli is useless in low M+ keys and pvp as well. What design is this?
what makes you think that the idea is to make all classes viable in all content, survival hunters have been basically unusable since they got changed, basically all priest specs are not even considered for dungeons, warlocks are some of the best damage in the game and they are normally not considered for dungeons, if your not playing pirate rogue you basically cant do anything,
not everything should be viable for everything, its perfectly okay for them to design a spec to be for PvP or for PvE
take priests for example, disc was always the PvP spec and holy more the PvE spec, which may have changed over time, but no one really seemed to care all that much they just got on with it and played the spec where it was good
We pay money to play the game we like the class we like in the content we like.
Priest apart from Shadow are ok in both PvE and PvP, the fact that shadow is bad in PvP is not Ok by any means. Maybe we should break DH so they would bad in PvP because by your logic this would be perfectly fine.
Why we have exceptions like warriors, DK, DH, Monks, rogues who are perfectly fine in both PvP and PvE, but when it comes to the demo, they should be viable only in some PvE.
you are acting like there has never been situations where some classes/specs were crap? did you try playing a fire mage in molten core? did you ever try playing ret or prot paladin in vanilla, since the game began there have been classes that were considered useless by most and were never used, and were completely unviable in different situations, and the fact that something has been around for 15 or so years and everyone wants classic so much should mean this is a good thing right?
because classic was so much better than live. so certain things being compeltely useless in everything should be fine, classes being completely unable to deal damage to bosses because of resists should be fine.
just get over it, if something is bad its bad, whining on the NA forums might help but EU never gets listened to anyway, you are just creating arguments for the sake of it and its not even worth it
And when classes was useless it was the sole right of people of these class to demand changes.
I don’t like what they did, i have my reasons to hate current iteration, it is my right to use the only method blizzard has provided to me to communicate with them, and be heard by them and community.
Classic was first iteration of game itself that went life. In TBC Blizzard made classes better and so on. And now i want from blizzard to improve/revamp/redesign spec that i played for so many years, because before Legion/BFA despite all issues that class had demo was never so broken in PvP. And i want them to fix this game.
but not liking something and something being broken is compeltely different, you not liking something doesnt mena it has to be changed, because there are people that like it. youi are actively trying to ruin something some people like
Because ever since at least Wrath of the Lich King the development philosophy has been “Bring the Player not the Class”. The idea of a PvP “spec” and a PvE “spec” went out the door a long time ago.
There’s always been the case where some classes/specs are terrible, but that has never been by design.
Whilst we can accept that in a Raid certain bosses will favour certain specs whilst other specs will struggle, but excluding an entire spec from all raiding has never been a thing and excluding a spec from an entire instance hasn’t been a thing since classic… heck I completed the Zul’Aman timed run on an Arcane Mage (that was in a time when Frost was for leveling/pvp and Fire was for Raiding)
We are actively providing feedback on what we like/dont like/see as issues with the spec so that the development team can understand how their players feel and then use the information to decided if they want to change the spec or leave it as is…
Besides as an afflication lock how are changes to demo going to ruin something you like?
then why was up untill at least mop disc still a PvP spec and holy still the PvE spec generally, frost was always more of a PvP spec for mages to. just because a philosophy exists it doesnt mean they will stick with it, take SL in general, one of the main philosophies was player agency, and yet the major system of covenants is doing everything it can to remove agency.
but there are times that if you want to play competitively you are generally expecting to play certain things, like in the first patch of BFA if you were a warlock you were basically aff of you didnt join, because the other two specs were useless.
there is a difference between providing feedback and claiming that the entire system a spec is based around and how its designed is broken, something being broken implies that the only way to fix it is to change it completely, where as providing feedback can lead to minor changes that will not cause the entire spec to be reworked.
im not an affliction warlock, im a warlock, i literally play all three specs depending on the content, i just happened to log out last in aff.
Open a PvP ladder and see how many Demonology warlocks are there, i’ll give you a spoiler less then 20 above 2.2 rating.
- Do you think this is ok?
- *It is not.
- Do you think it is because people preffer destro more?
-
- Sure it is.
- Why people preffer Destro more?
-
- Because it deals more damage and overall more reliable spec.
- Why destro is more reliable?
-
- Because it was designed that way, to be viable in PvP and PvE.
- It is ok that destro is so reliable?
-
- Probably.
- It is ok that demo can’t be so reliable in PvP?
-
- Absolutely not.
i have already stated my opinion on this stuff, there is no need to rehash it, i think its perfectly fine that there is a spec thats better for PvP for warlocks, its okay that demonology doesnt do that well in PvP because not everything needs to be good in PvP. if none of the warlock specs were good there could be a problem, but if some of them are then the problem is a lot less of a problem than people seem to be making it.
but as i have said repeatedly now, i dont really know all that much about PvP, outside of warmode i havnt done any PvP since the start of legion, so i cant speka to how the ladders work and who is playing what, to be quite frank i dont really care what spec is good or not in PvP,
but the fact you are saying a spec is fundamentally broken because it isnt that good in PvP is just outright wrong, a spec can be perfectly fine as it is and still not be that great in PvP, take tank specs for example, they are not the best in PvP other than being tanking, but i dont see any posts on the forums about tanks specs needing to be completely reworked for better viability in PvP
Barry the issue were facing here with you is - arcane mage in pvp might not be as good as fire, but the difference is that all the other examples you can provide of classes not being as good in pvp are down to being less competitive in the meta, demo actually doesn’t FUNCTION in a dynamic pvp situation as it’s intended to at all which is a much larger wall than just not having the right nuke spell or best set up. Its fundamentally flawed to a point it actually cant preform it’s own design even underwhelmingly.
That’s a huge difference- an arcane mage still works in all content , fire and frost to, regardless of best or worse. Sv hunter works despite not being best in all content like the other specs do.
Demo out right doesn’t- it has one meta it’s good in, one it can work okay in, and an entire situation where it just cant … imagine you was into the idea of doing world content with war mode on, not rated just wm on, maybe you want some achievements associated with it which should be accessible to everyone-would you be happy to watch players use jumping a low wall to force your pets to time out taking long path then back over and over again? Knowing you cant do anything about it? No
Are you gonna be happy that come sl that demo will be even harder pressed to find a place in m+ as most the new content both world and dungeons have important interrupts to do that it is locked from doing anything about because your spec choice means you will have to sacrifice 6 seconds of cast to resummon a pet (intended change to summon time that is in ptr now) and cant do effective damage ? No your not gonna be
I hate to break it to you but SL is gonna likely put demo even further apart from other options in pve because affliction and destro both can do things that is expected from all dps roles while still pulling the same kinda numbers, which is gonna leave you likely the last choice for m+ if there was an affli on call too. You might not see it but I do - demo is gonna be at best a raid only spec with a lower priority in m+ because affli looks amazing in ptr and can do all a demo cam do but better. Your arguing to keep a design that I know will only create reason to not pick one for party
There is a difference between under performance and being handicapped by a design can be exploited by other team for how AI works, get that into your head- it’s not the same
they have made axe toss into an interrupt and stun, so its usable to interrupt casts now. demo has been the go to spec for dungeons for a while where warlocks are concerned regardless of if they had access to an interrupt or not, so that barely mattered anyway.
im asking for a spec to stay as it is because it has a nice rotation that i enjoy playing for the content that i do,
even though i have already stated this im going to say it again because you clearly didnt read it, just because something doesnt work in PvP it doesnt mean it has to be changed, it is okay for things to not work in some aspects of different content, as it has always been throughout the entirety of wows life span,
just because a spec doesnt work in the content you want to play regardless of if its technical stuff or its under performing does that mean you have to try and force change into it and completely ruin other peoples fun that enjoy playing the spec as it is?
its not like there are 35 other specs in the game you could play and most likely have more success with, if they completely rework demonology it completely removed something that is thoroughly enjoyed by a lot of people, all of teh warlocks that play in my guild, at least 6 or 7 people that i can think of have all enjoyed playing demonology that being the main sample size i have to contend with in terms of gaging enjoyment, and i have seen multiple other people through different forum topics that also enjoy it,
you have many options for things to enjoy and play, why are you trying to remove something from other people.
It is. Blizzard allows demonology to play in PvP rated and unrated, this fact alone demands spec to be viable in PvP. If it doesn’t meant to be played in PvP then Blizz should restrict demo access, make an official statement “Dear players, because we doesn’t designed Demo to be good in PvP we restrict usage of that spec in PvP in order to save you from all mental pain”.
And i know more then 20 warlocks alone on my RP server who doesn’t like current demo because of bad gameplay.
Look at this forum, see how people are not happy with it. Look at NA forums, people there are more vocal and has more numbers within crowd that hates corent demo.
It is not Ok by any means. World of Warcraft has both PvE and PvP modes, it has advertisments about PvP mode, in some Dev videos they even has clips of demo in PvP, so they clearly concider demo as a PvP spec.
If you didn’t noticed, but blizzard did same to use in Legion, we didn’t asked for rework, but blizz did it. We was happy about MoP/WoD demo, but blizz decided to change things, It was change that no one has asked.
Right now, we rightfully ask changes because current iteration of demo struggles in PvP, the mode where warlocks historically was strong. Warlocks historically had a very strong and determine PvP comunity, you can say it is part of it’s DNA.
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that right there is a good point, people who like it dont feel the need to go on about it, so they wouldnt be on the forums, so there is no way to possibly know how many people do and do not like it
they didnt just make changes to it for no reason, there was claerly a reason for and there is clearly less reason for them to change it back
Proves you’re clueless.
Compare the talents and baseline spells we had in legion that were really useful in both pve and pvp.
Demonwrath, impending doom, hand of doom, doomguard, infernal, dark soul, artifact traits, and shadowflame
And what do we have in bfa?
Tyrant which is basically a bad version of Doomguard and then we have power siphon which is just a boring and useless version of
Wake up man seriously you have to be completely out of touch with this class if you think it’s better than what we had in legion.
The sad part is since MoP/WoD this spec and class has gotten weaker
Reason because they changed demo doesn’t have anything to do with demonology gameplay. It was DH, they could not afford to represent their main selling point of legion in the bad light, and if WoD demo was unchanged in Legion, DH would have looked like a cheap goblin knock rip off.
This is the reason why demo was changed, there was no big thoughts about how demo played badly or that it was wrong. No, it was pure marketing reason.
or it proves that its compeltely subjective and a matter of opinion.
the reason i didnt like the legion version was because i just hated how demonic empowerment worked, other than that it was okay
Don’t get me wrong but there has been good abilities for Demonology from MoP-Bfa
MoP demo had meta and of course its utility brought with meta.
I feel like they should combined all the different variants of demo into 1.
Bring back meta and its utility such as touch of chaos, chaos wave, carrion swarm, and demonic leap.
For legion demo they should bring back the old Demonbolt, dark regeneration, grimoire supremacy maybe replace the demons with the new legion demons like the Fel lord replaces the wrathguard.
Harvest life should make a return due to drain life being absolutely rubbish and only drains your mana. Blood horror, dark bargain were such cool abilities have especially blood horror… the amount of meeles that used trinket on it in duels was satisfying.
Legion also had useful talents that helped out in pvp especially when it came to arenas. Impending doom and hand of doom. Impending doom spawned an imp on an enemy target when doom ticked and the imp would attack said target. This was really good in stopping healers from drinking.
The healers did dispell doom but I think there’s a solution on how tobenefit demo locks from a healer doing this. Back in the day we had demonic fury as a resource which was pretty handy compared to the soul shards we got given in legion. In WoD our pvp set bonus allowed us to gain a large amount of demonic fury when our doom was dispelled. I think they should bring this back as baseline ability.
Hand of Doom made hand of Gul’dan put doom on all targets that were hit by it. You can see why demo was useful in rbgs summoning an actual army of demons in AV was fun. They should also replace demonic strength with Demonwrath. It makes no damn sense you cant use demonic strength if your target is around the pillar even if your felguard is hitting him but yet you can still use his baseline fel/wrathstom ability lol
So basically this is how I think it should go.
We build up demonic fury with corruption and getting hand of Gul’dans out with our imps (that should spawn near the target like they did in legion) we reach max fury we get into meta with our demo utility and we pretty much empower all our demons I think it should have the effect more like it was with demonic empowerment. Tyrant will also be instant cast. I haven’t really thought on much on how it could work with tyrant but the main focus will obviously be us in meta casting demonbolts with our army of dreadstallers imps and tyrant. Let me know what you think of this idea
the only way to make that work properly would be to add a 4th spec that gave back meta and the old MoP style and keep current demo as is.
No thanks Unless you…