WW and Enh over MM and Frost Mage? to be fair knowing blizzard this will probably be the case would also imagine Ret is in there aswell. The first season will be eerrrr “Interesting”
That’s interesting because they cut the CP generation from Cheap Shot in half just so you would have less damage if you also CC people, and yet you still manage to whine, and ask for it to be reduced.
Maybe numbers talk to you better, cut in half means nerfed by 50%, since I see a 10% shaman nerf, for you, means “a lot less”.
I’m actually certain you didn’t even know of that nerf, because you don’t actually care about it being nerfed, what interests you is just to be able to whine on Rogues over and over, as you’re one of those people unable to deal with them and you take it all on the class instead of addressing what you do wrong first.
Just so you know, using 3 Cheap Shots in one go now rewards 3 CPs, which is half a finisher, and costs 120 Energy which is more than a full bar. As you get energy back from using finishers this is quite the nerf compared to when Cheap Shot gave 2 (Vanilla > BfA btw) as you aren’t able to get the energy you use from CC to do damage. You get some back, but it isn’t very fluid. Also on real goes you often want to cheap the third target to set your team up. Usibg 4 Cheap Shots on a go now would still not even be a finisher, as it would be only 4 CPs, and costs 160 energy.
But yeah, there are still people like you who manage to complain about the energy cost, and the CP generation, of the CC ability.
Unbelivable.
I see you’re knowledgeable about Shaman nerfs. Rogue changes are just as easily accessible online. If you are going to cry over Rogues again maybe you should start by reading the changes just so you don’t say stupid stuff, if anything.
Just to be clear, not liking something because you think it’s too strong (regardless of whether it is or not, actually) and arguing about it in a reasonable manner is okay, but crying for the sake of crying without having made the effort to look things up, and doing so consistently, is not.
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More I just started naming some and then gave up naming more but I think frost mage may be nerfed enough from what I have seen on streams. MM hits like a truck though that’s true.
Frost mage is a funny one - ideally they’d bake more damage into shattering but they don’t because of pve reasons I think. Frostbolt damage is also probably low for similar reasons
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you said all this, as if Sub isn’t extremely strong… Its the best Melee DPS along with Arms Warrior right now, even after trinket nerfs, so maybe you know relax abit and understand players grievances are maybe a little warranted??
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Don’t know where you get that summarization from. Watched a bit of JoeFernandes stream the other day, on beta warrior, the damage was nothing spectacular. WW is insane. Won’t even go into casters and mention those SPs…
Not that warriors is bad, but not as you describe it.
Which is why I added my last paragraph, to specifically make it clear that yes, you can complain about something too powerful, but in an intelligent way.
This guy is, and has been, crying over Rogues without even offering anythibg worth reading. If you look at his post history on the matter you will easily understand that in the end it means something close to “I have no idea how to deal with this class as a whole, I don’twant to neither improve nor learn, so just gut it completely so I don’t have to do any effort in order not to lose when I trinket sap while the rogue hasn’t even opened yet”.
You get the idea.
It is not because of the damage that Warrior is absolutely insane at the moment, it’s because of the overloaded kit that they bring to their team ans to themselves. They are extremely good at peeling, very disruptive, actually sticky regardless of whatever old beliefs most people cling to about Arms mobility, can stop damage on their team, can prevent interrupts as well, can reduce CC, give health …
If they had WW/Sub level or burst there wouldn’t, currently, be a point in playing any other melee.
Wow, really, overloaded kit? Coming from a rogue? Warriors still don’t have self healing, stun as a talent, worst slow in the game, and they got intervene and base spell reflect, buhoo…overloaded kit…come on…
Finally warriors are little bit more than a damage (bad at that) bot and you guys start squeaking. Yet rogues have been with one of the best kits since…forever plus their top dmg. WW are crazy. DHs (till now) were unspeakable.
Now warriors are probably better than DKs and Ret and that’s it. But yet to see by how much. I suppose in this caster meta that approaches, DKs will start to shine soon.
But don’t worry, all rogues will start screaming again week 1 of season and warriors will be nerfed on week 1 + 2 days as usual. Then rogues, ww will dominate for months but nothing will change.
My gosh… are my words less valid if I post with my Hunter ?
In any case, the fact that you allow yourself to react like this because it’s me or because I have a Rogue doesn’t matter. Players who play daily, who have played beta, experienced players (tournament like) almost all agree with the fact that Arms has an insanely wide kit, much better than the other specs at the moment, and that it is looking insane.
No offense, but the fact that you are opposed to the idea just because I am the one answering you right now doesn’t make it less true. Especially since, as I said, it’s not an idea that I made up myself and that no one agrees with. Quite the contrary.
Maybe. It has not happened yet. When it happens we’ll talk about it. Then. If you want to have fun thinking taking into account things that aren’t existant yet, go ahead, but then don’t argue about what is now saying it might not be one day. It isn’t relevant to the discussion.
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I saw high ranking players one shotting ppl even on DH with hunt, so what? Are we claiming DH are insane in SL as well now? They might be, who knows. I see a lot of top players also claiming WW and Sub are over the top. Have yet to see one claim warrior dmg is over the top, and yes, the kit is good now, compared to what warriors had and if used by top ranking players in a top team they can be quite powerful.
And yes, coming from a rogue, since everything is relative does matter. It’s like Jeff Bezos whining the Bill Gates is too rich.
Also, about the nerf, I don’t dwell on what “might” happen, but then why should we moan about something that “probably is” (warrior being eventually so strong)? If we accept the latter we should accept the first equally.
Then this whole thing might be irrelevant as would warriors be a week and a half into S1.
Overloaded? You mean the kit the class had for most of the game? Swap IP for shield wall and add ontop of that selfheal and a couple of other things, then its complete.
If anything warrior needs more of its pruned abilities back.
The reason the other guy points this out whwn you are posting on a rogue because, historically, your class has lost little to -nothing-.
Warrior used to have many of the things they now have baseline, and more, during Cata, Mop and WoD. And they weren’t any more op than any other class save before taste for blood nerf in MoP.
You say its too good a kit when rogue has kept its all these years. Imagine if you had a row where you had to choose between shadow step, evasion and kidney shot. Then you’d know how warrior players feel about their talent tree since Legion.
Thanks for trying. That’s one more step than most people take.
Yes I mean that. It doesn’t matter what classes had. All that matters is now. Don’t get me wrong, only an idiot would disagree with you if you mean that most specs had a loaded kit before, comparable to what SL Arms offers (that’s the idea I got from reading you, so I agree). But now, Warriors, especially Arms, have more than others. That much is what matters. What a spec can do, compared to others. If it can do so much more, it is better. Also I do not call for the removal of Warrior stuff. If anything I’m glad they got it back, but playing other specs it feels weird that they now have so much (back) when others do not.
Taking an extreme example here, are white people forbidden to talk about slavery in America because they are the color that was the least affected by it there ? I do not think it works that way. In the same way, whatever character I post with shouldn’t change how what I type is read. What I type is what I type regardless of what is my class of choice, or my forum class. Anyways. I shouldn’t even have to explaibtis to the other guy, every sensible human being should understand this by default, it’s alarming that it isn’t the case.
Yes. But again, at this time, other classes had answers of their own. To me at the moment it feels like Warriors have more than most of the others. And it appears my opinion is shared by more than the random player with no games sense.
Okay, that’s cool. Now tell me again what the bitterness of Warriors regarding the fact that Rogues don’t have to pick their stun in their talents has to do with their SL kit ? I don’t see the (obvious?) link here.
Also, just so we’re clear, each class has a core design, right. Arms got its first real single target stun in the Cataclysm talent tree or somewhere around that time. Rogues are designed around stuns, and have been since day one. So I don’t really see how Warriors having to pick their stuns while Rogues do not is a big deal. In the end they have it. I’m not crying that 2/3 of my specs lost their disarm forever while the third has it only via talent, and has to sacrifice a good one to pick it, just because Warriors or Monks have an easier time picking it, or have a better version of it. I accept that in terms of design it’s maybe ok that it’s like this. Just like it’s ok that Rogues have their stuns and defensives and Warriors have something else.
Tbh I don’t even know why I have to explain all of his just because that one most random guy can’t take the face that Arms has a great kit just because a guy said it with a Rogue tag. Unbelievable.
It’s also easy to forget that Rogues lost a lot of stuff too, as there is that group of people who keep going with the “but they are still OP!”. As a Rogue, I do feel like I miss many abilities that allowed me to deal with situations that I can’t solve now. It’s not like we rogue players don’t know the feeling, you just think we don’t because you think (which may be right btw) that we lost less. We still lost significant stuff. So maybe don’t hit me with the “you’ll know what it’s like, kid”.
There might be many typos on this, phone and tired.
and yet they manage to kill anyone in the opener even without trinkets and yet you manage to still defend this broken class since the dawn of time.
Well of course you do because you only play rogue.
if i win 2 mio in the lottery and you cut it in half, I am still a millionaire. That’s what rogue is currently.
I know every single nerf they got, I also know the 50 nerfs that assa got from legion till Shadowlands and they were still OP as frick. So don’t tell me just because something got nerfed that they are inline.
ah yes, and in which world is it balanced to stun a WHOLE team just by yourself and still being able to dish out broken dmg?
Thank god you can also port around the map because what rogues need are 2 shadowsteps.
indeed you are. how about you play another class to see how broken rogues are.
I see all the rogue nerfs and yet they are still broken because their whole damn kit is broken. They can twist some numbers like reducing something from 100 to 15% (lol talk about broken) and it is still broken (did you even play assa rogue in the last 4 years).
Rogues live in their own small bubble, I see.
because he defends this class till forever, everyone knows this here. He also defends rmp in s3 and s4 in bfa and assa in s2+s3 so there is not much point to argue because as you see RoGuE gOt NeRfEd bY 1% nOw iT iS BaLaNcEd
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I agree with shadenox here warrior is way to strong atm in my eyes.
But that also goes for sub.
Because, again, you are dodging the question.
You say warriors kit is overloaded. It isn’t. If anything, all classes and specs should be brought to the gold standard of rogie and shadow priest who now have answers to just about everything.
Warriors kit can not bw overloaded yet because there are specs and classes like rogue and shadow priest and mages that have complete kits.
The reason why I bring the example up is because I can not for the life of me fathom how can you with a straight face complain that a warriors kit is overloaded when the truth is that you have had a bloated kit through legionn WoD and BfA and no matter how many people point this its always the case of “no actually its totally fair.”. Yet when other classes are brought on par, it isn’t?
Warriors kit isn’t overloaded or op. It is balanced- Hell you could actually give them defensive stance back baseline and add an actual self heal worth salt taking to its place and it’d still be fine.
If warriors are op its because the damage they deal, and only that. But now even if they nerf the damage (which they will) the spec actually remains viable because it has such strong defensive, peeling and disruptive tools.
I guess the concept of moral is lost on you. Or you haven’t heard the wise saying “The thief screaming - catch the thief”. When I see you advocating for big rogue nerfs and posting topic after topic how op rogue is and how rich the kit is and how it should be cut, then you can come here and whine about warriors.
Of course, you can in any cause, that’s your right, but you are losing the high moral ground and all you say sounds just like salty whine, instead of something that should be regarded with respect.
And the fact, this common human ethic behavior is lost on you is alarming.
Er people have been saying how to change rogues lol?
This topic is about mentioning things that you think are broken in beta and in my opinion, its just you and that priest (ok and the shaman who hates rogues) who are taking everything personally like we took a dump on your dog.
I said earlier I thought WW had too much damage - did cutiepie rage in my face typing a load of “hurr durr you’re a rogue”? No they didn’t, they responded in ways you can actually have conversations.
So perhaps you should just grow up? Its a place for discussion, not for ranting that shadenox plays rogue so lol look in the mirror before you say warriors are OP. If you cant come up with arguments why you personally think warriors kit is totally fine in the current version of the game, then I’m not sure why you’re even arguing.
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Relax, my dude. Are we even real here?
It’s a GAME. You, and an other person from the internet have different opinions regarding something about a video game, and you are lecturing him as if he had severely violated basic human rights! 
Calm down!
I have often wondered this myself as well. Why are people so eager to argue when they have not at the very least taken the minimum amount of time to think about how to present their arguments, and what those are.
Watched supatease video yesterday. He put arms, sub, ww and feral in S tier. Good to hear that we udks might avoid nerfs withing few weeks of sl 
Oh, but people have been asking for changes to rogues since…wow existence yet rogues stay on top all the time, and yet they continue to moan about other classes and when faced with the rightful responses of other people resort to “grow up”.
Seems like you rogues need to actually grow up, it’s been like 16 years already…
Anyway I am always opened for a discussion on the forums but when it’s done in a sensible way, and rogues coming to the forum, bashing other classes and screaming how op they are is kind of … ridiculous. I’ll gladly join you both then, in a topic about how op rogues are, anyone of you creates, and how they need to be nerfed and kit cut down, so we can discuss this, alright?
And BTW, I don’t see anything bad in warriors being S tier. Rogues, for example have been like that…forever, WW for a long time too, other specs too, so what’s the problem? You got something personal vs warriors together with Shadenox?
How cool you are, nobody is saying it’s not a game, he was asking why are people saying “coming from a rogue”, just explained it to him, it’s normal and if he can’t understand it, fine.
Different opinion goes multiple ways, right?