Building Azeroth: Northrend

Once batching was killed nochanges was killed.

Be careful what you wish for.

Pre-patch soon? :slight_smile:

I am not interested in your vision of WotLK


The first thing I remember seeing in classic vanilla beta was retail raid frames. There was never a consistency of changes. On the one hand Blizzard says they want the game “rough around the edges” like recreating spellbatching and then add retail system/interface elements to have more convenience. They just did what they want from the start.

Yeah yeah I played WOTLK the first time and it’s great, but lets not rush it out too fast, we went from 2022 to people talking about August, I’d like the Summer to be long behind us before I’m playing WOTLK so I can role-play being cold as if I were in Northrend.

True give us launch version of Fury Warrior before they nerfed it, so that Fury can be playable before T9.

So very much this. To the point that with all the changes you’re making I’ve started to think I’ll just skip your version of it and find myself the original (or as close to as possible) version of it elsewhere.

Your changes to wotlk itself, but also along with the fact that you actually removed a post i made on your warcraft twitter. Not in any way abusive or even unpolite. Simply pointing you to the first answer here Group Finder Improvements in Wrath Classic - #4 by Yoken-tarren-mill, and the fact that all the likes it has recieved might point to the fact that you Blizzard are dead wrong here.


But that is not what you want, you want RDF from the start. That is basicly as far from an original Wrath experience you can get.


Theres a big difference in an interface change, which everyone can individualize via addons and a core gameplay mechanic that persisted way beyond wotlk and has significant balance and feel implications for the game.

One doesnt really change the game itself, in the way it functions and works, the other does.

Edit: once the door for actual gamechanging changes was kicked in, everything was and is up to debate. Thats why more changes that directly affect the game world and gameplay have been introduced.

I agree there is a difference between an interface change and a game mechanic. I think an interface change is comparable to the quest helper, if its made optional in the interface. Most play the game with the function (questie) already, similar to other interface changes.

If you want an example for game mechanics changes in vanilla classic, I would count layering as a non classic feature, that changes core gameplay by making layer hopping possible or not being able to meet/see players at the same location.

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I agree to a certain degree. I personally was never a fan of layering, even tho it is a better solution than phasing, which they wanted to go with first.

The difference is, as so often, in the detail. Layering was born out of a population problem, given the circumstances.

Removing batching, on the other hand, was only made as a change to the game, because a group of people didn’t like the feel of the original game or were used to retail.

The underlying motivation and justifcation for each change is inherently different. As is their impact on further changes.

That change is nothing but laughable honestly. Almost everyone is using it via questie and those who don’t doesn’t have to turn the function on.

Jeesus Blizz what the **** are you doing???

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Not as far as having no RDF at all. Your strawman argument doesnt become any better with time. Yes, many players would prefer RDF at the beginning, but most would be fine with the original timeline and have RDF in 3.3.0, if Blizzard actually confirmed this. The main issue is that Blizzard only announced there is no RDF at all. And RDF was part of the expansion, it was designed with the expansion in mind and to fix existing issues within the expansion. Since its a fix, its also the reason many players prefer to have it earlier. Its what most players experienced and remember about the expansion, since it was there for a whole year before cataclysm launched. Saying it was the “last patch, end of expansion” is simply misleading and not staying true to the fact, it was part of the expansion for a whole year.
All these players would be happy to hear that RDF, as part of wotlk, will be released in wotlk. Everything else, like having it earlier, is secondary.


A Blizz-made problem by not opening enough realms and not giving more fast enough! They should have kept to Vanilla realm size all along not all this layering or sharding or whatever it’s all so Un-Classic as can be … much worse than RDF for the social aspect. Actually if something should carry the blame for the not very social behaviour in Classic then this!

But you can’t NOT have it if it’s a part of the UI: It was not possible in Wrath after 3.3.0 to have it look like it does now.
You people using those things happily have no idea of just HOW integrated they are.
Jeez yesterday a guy told me I could remove the 100% Xp buff from SoM if I did not like it … of course you can’t!

Hard to say, might aswell have been designed with Cataclysm preperations in mind. Not like they wait with the end of one expansion to start planning and creating the other - Right? So as far as we know (which isnt much) it could have been added as a test or preperation for a game design that was on its way.

It came really late and was never a sell argument for WOTLK, nore did WOTLK need it to grow/keep people.

To compare it with Classic, it would be like saying that the Chronoboon was a core feature for Classic with Classic in mind. It wasnt, it came way to late for that.

While I see your argument, I think its less likely that Blizzard designed the RDF with Cataclysm in mind. The main reason is, that it took a whole year until Cataclysm release after RDF was released. At the point they started designing the RDF, which was probably a few months before the actual release, they were just getting started with Cataclysm, so its less likely they designed a feature for an expansion, which they didnt know how it will turn out at that time. On the other hand at that time they that saw the needs of players during the first half year of wotlk and tried to find a solution that, which was ultimately the RDF.

I think you could compare RDF to features like dual spec or battleground experience/new queue system.

Dual specialization was introduced in patch 3.1, because they tried to encourage players to play multiple roles for reasons like the tank and healer shortage. Because of the costs of glyphs changing talents had become too costly and a fix was needed, with wotlk in mind.
One Battleground change was introduced in 3.1, the ability to queue from anywhere. The other one, the battleground experience, was introduced in 3.2 to encourage more leveling players to experience more variety while leveling.
In patch 3.3.0, they introduced RDF, because especially while leveling, players had troubles finding groups in time. On low pop servers it was nearly impossible. The ability to queue from everywhere and get matched automatically was the same they introduced one patch earlier in terms of battlegrounds. Its the same for crossrealm matching and the port to the instanced destination and back. Blizzard tried to make the casual content, which is battlegrounds and dungeons, more easy to access during the whole expansion of wotlk.

RDF was not a feature that did something never seen before. It was just a process which elements were already present in wotlk at that point, just for different content.

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:smiley: it’s unfortunate that private servers will always recreate older expansions better
but blizzard tried we can give them that

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Good, byeeee

In germany every employee can ask for an employment reference letter when he leaves a company. And employers aren’t allowed to write negative things in it, so they came up with things that sound positive but have a negative meaning.
“He always tried” translates to “He just couldn’t do anything right.”

I mean, at least it came out at some point in WotLK, and given how long 3.3 lasted and the fact most WotLK pservers are based on 3.3.5 and include it, most people reasonably included RDF in WotLK (at some point) within their expectations.

This new LFG tool, on the other hand, never belonged to WotLK in the first place, but this does not seem to phaze at all the people who claim RDF is a “pre-cata” feature. Double standards much?