Burning Crusade Classic Realm Consolidation August 10

I made a Character, Wunderhorn - Tauren Hunter, on Celebras 14 days ago. He’s so far only level 8, but I’ll get as high as possible for the Goodbye party - Be warned, I’m slow :wink:


they really make me nervous with their “connect the Era realms”. (THEY ARE ALREADY)
You can see what comes out once Blizzard starts :smile:

If they also delete the Era RP realms, I scream :neutral_face: :tired_face: :confounded: :scream: :fearful:


as I said, we would fit well together. :slight_smile:

Similar interests, similar guilds(leaders), and I’m also not the fastest at leveling (so every level hurts when the chars will be deleted :smiley: )


So do we have any news on what is happening with transfers off Ashbringer or Razorgore yet, or are the few remaining players going to be stuck behind a pay-to-move transfer while you dump all of the inactive players on those 2 servers on August 10th?

It’s pretty nasty to treat people like that, so please confirm what your plans are for those 2 servers so at least we know whether we should look at moving or simply unsubscribe now and not waste time and effort on something that you are not going to support.

@Kaivax - Any update is appreciated.


It is exactly what they are trying. What do you think the 30% discount is for. Blizzard doesn’t give a damn about the Diablo Immortal Sh*tstorm and they surely don’t care about customer service in this game. Blizzard is truly a fallen hero.

Please keep in mind that Diablo Immortal and WoW Classic (and even Wow Classic and Wow Retail) are maintained by completely different teams. :slight_smile:
The WoW Classic team is not responsible for the Diablo immortal decisions (i don´t care about Diablo… i should read what happened there, i heard now several times that something went terrible wrong there. Even my “i love Diablo so much i can´t wait for Diablo 4” friend does no longer want to get Diablo 4 … :see_no_evil: )

Aggrend wrote that they are still “watching” some realms and Kaivax wrote that the “full” list of realms to be retired is yet to come.
I hope for your sake that Patchwerk is on it (I was already thinking if we can just swap the names on our realms unnoticed, so that they merge Patchwerk and leave Celebras alone joke :wink: :crazy_face: )

I think the devs do NOT intend to frustrate players into transferring away in exchange for money. I am 100% sure about that.

I think they are trying to make as many players happy as possible.

And: i know how it is to feel treated as a walking wallet.
So I can definitely understand you.
That’s how Blizzard treated me all those years before Wow Classic, as a roleplayer.

I don’t know how deep into RP you are - but for us, our chars aren’t just chars. We feel with them like others feel with their favorite characters in TV series, even deeper. When I see my chars, which I created around 2005, I see not only toons, but old friends, whose quirks and idiosyncrasies I know, their wishes…
One day, it must have been around 2007, a player let his char die (he had too much stress at the university).
Our guild leader was the brother of this char in the game… during the graveyard scene, suddenly several (3 or 4) small chars arrived, whose name all have a vulgar swear word, slightly modified with ^ and ’ and `.
They spammed the swear word in /s and /y, I mean they spammed the fart emote (that you can’t block… the whole chat was full of it), jumped and cast spells. The last thing the roleplayer connected to his char and saw were these… “Player” is not what I want to call it.
And do you know what Blizzard did?
Nothing :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: :angry: :rage:

The players were more careful afterwards, and no longer spammed vulgar swear words, but that was it. They have, otherwise, continued and disturbed events.
But this one, this special one, i never forgot. It was so mean, so hateful, so vicious because they did it solely to destory this players farewell to his char.
And Blizzard… didn´t care. :angry: :rage: :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

We had a player on the official Realm forum who philosophized that he “has nothing against roleplayers, nothing effective”.
They were partially (underhandedly, but still quite clearly) amused by destroying events and making roleplayers log off on their RP realm.
And you know what Blizzard did?
Exactly, nothing :angry:

Many roleplayers took flight one day, and transferred (EXACTLY, paid transfers) their chars away, hoping to finally have peace on their target realm.

Not me, I stayed… but honestly all these years I only got a kick in the […]. From the other players who have actively spoiled my game fun, from blizzard…
But to pay a monthly subscription, and to buy the addons, I was Blizzard then but good enough

we roleplayers have come to terms with making sure ourselves that we are not disturbed… today, tickets would probably no longer be written. especially since the rules were abolished anyway. have only made trouble anyway…

But that’s exactly why I think the current devs deserve a chance, and don’t deserve the distrust (“they’re just doing this to hurt us so we’ll pay”). :heart:

Because the FIRST after such a long time, who actively listen to us, are the current Classic devs. :heart: :heart:
First they listened to us when we told them we need a German language RP realm (and that is still so!!! grumble :expressionless:), and now when they let us Hydraxian Waterlords. They even reversed their whole decision and are trying to help us get English-speaking RPers to gather again. :heart: :heart: :heart:
That would never have happened “back in the day”.

If they are helping US, they are definitely helping you, too. :slight_smile:
There is simply no reason, why they shouldn´t

Don’t get me wrong, I’m just as frustrated as you are.

My rational part is extremely grateful, for getting Celebras back in the day, and now Hydraxian Waterlords. :heart: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: :heart_eyes:

My emotional part currently feels just as betrayed and let down as you do.
My friends and I, nothing has changed for us. We won’t be able to play on Hydraxian Waterlords, my friends don’t know English at all, mine is too bad for serious rp.

And for me, after all these years of being neglected, there’s just a lot more emotionally attached to “Celebras”.

I am torn here between the happiness that finally someone did care about us roleplayers :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: :heart_eyes: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:, and the frustration that the germans, who can´t speak english, are forgotten…

So I can really sympathize with you :slightly_smiling_face:

Anyway, I hope that Blizzard also listens to you, so that you finally get help on Patchwerk. :slight_smile:

that they try to satisfy the players as good as it can be, I am 100% convinced :smiling_face:


Please keep in mind that Diablo Immortal and WoW Classic (and even Wow Classic and Wow Retail) are maintained by completely different teams. :slight_smile:

You are right but you can clearly see a trend from WC3 → WoW → Heartstone → Overwatch → WoW Shadowlands → Diablo : Immortal. If WoW would be well maintained I/we wouldn’t draw the conclusion that game quality only got worse over the years. And Blizzard wouldn’t bleed 2 Mio. Customers per quarter.

The WoW Classic team is not responsible for the Diablo immortal decisions

Also true and I also don’t think they are responsible for higher up management decisions. But we are heading in a direction at Blizzard where money > everything. Diablo is just the tip of the iceberg where Blizzard is thinking 100000 $ is a good price for “end game” - They completly redefined Pay 2 Win - At Blizzard it is now Pay 2 Progress. And I belief that they are heading in the same direction with WoW Classic - monetisation is just different probably due to the additional fee. In order to progress you have to be on a big server and if you are not one of the lucky ones who started there you shall pay for it. I do believe it is not in the interest of the developers either, however if nothing of this intent is reaching the customer I cannot give them a free pass.

Aggrend wrote that they are still “watching” some realms and Kaivax wrote that the “full” list of realms to be retired is yet to come.

Haven’t seen that. From what I’ve read they will monitor the server “going into Wotlk” and hope server issues solve themselve.

I don’t belief that. We lost 50% of our remaining population since may. I mean how many patience shall I proof to behave before I am allowed to speak against those practices and there hesitancy?

I hope for your sake that Patchwerk is on it (I was already thinking if we can just swap the names on our realms unnoticed, so that they merge Patchwerk and leave Celebras alone joke :wink: :crazy_face: )

Probably too late - My guild is ready to bent the knee. People want to play the game. Patchwerk is like a Shattrath simulator. If you are not one of a lucky with an arena teammate you can’t basically do anything anymore. No raids (the last remaining BT pug stopped 3 weeks ago), no dungeons nothing. People are bored to death. And I don’t get Blizzards approach - Do they think people will forget about this stuff. A happy satisfied customer will be loyal, but they are literally destroying their reputation with stuff like that.

I think the devs do NOT intend to frustrate players into transferring away in exchange for money. I am 100% sure about that.

Yes and no. I’ve seen devs defending the current management decisions in the community council threads in the us forum. If I am not agreeing with my employer I would keep my mouth shut in order to show solidary with the players. I belief in the good heart of most developers but tbh nothing reaches me. Resources needed to fix critical game parts are spent on swapping paintings ingame or rename NPCs. And even if the classic team is small, how can it be that private servers are so much better in reacting to community feedback? I don’t think they had a big team either.

But that’s exactly why I think the current devs deserve a chance, and don’t deserve the distrust (“they’re just doing this to hurt us so we’ll pay”). :heart:

Well - Yes they listened but how much do you think is due to player pressure? We all agree that years back subscriber count was much higher. Blizzard could afford to loose players. I don’t think thats the case anymore. They need Dragonflight and WOTLK to be a success otherwise the entire franchise may be in danger. In the end the monetary success of the predecessor also dictates the production budget for the next addon.
Ofc it can be that the tide has shifted and management cannot overrule every (pro-player) developer decision but tbh I think alot of the feedback and communication right now is PR for the expansions. Before they only communicated when it was really necessary. Now they inform you about every step and try to make you feel listened thus you are hyped on the expansion. There is nothing bad in that per se but I am concerned the communication will deteriorate ones the addon launches. A good service is not determined by the behaviour before the purchase but by the aftersale.

Anyway, I hope that Blizzard also listens to you, so that you finally get help on Patchwerk. :slight_smile:

The problem is the communication is lackluster at best. Alot of people asking if they should pay now the price for a server trans or pray they get help in the future. Sorry but that’s predatory. There is nothing that prevents Blizzard to put their server health metrics in a script and automate (faction specific) free transfers activation. It is not wanted - And again I will never blame the individual developers for this practice. But I won’t turn a blind eye to those at the top of Blizz’s food chain. And I include lead devs like Brian Birmingham because they are technically not developers anymore but managers of the game.
I am a friend of active,honest discussion. Nothing prevents Blizz from talking to us. People would probably much more understandable if they would do that. But hearing the excuses over and over and to top it of also shift the blame on the playerbase won’t make me sympathise with them. I mean the forum would probably be full of complains if they didn’t have already 2 free transfer rounds. But what changed effectively since then? The problems are still the same - only the percentage of players who is affected by them temporarily decreased.

that they try to satisfy the players as good as it can be, I am 100% convinced :smiling_face:

I think that too but that doesn’t help if the management has the last word.


Hey Blizzard as you need Serverspace I have here a trade for you.
WE: The community get Celebras and Zandalar Tribe to stay and free transfers to it.
YOU: Can close Ashbringer and Patchwork.

This way the RPler get our RP Server to stay and if to many returner appear with WotLK can get used as an emergency escape again and you can close two more servers with Low population that are absolutely unhappy and want away.


This is it you see – in regards to Horde on Ashbringer it is suggested that there are about 54 active players - BUT there are maybe 1.5 k Alliance. The devs need to see that their free transfer stipulation should not be based on TOTAL server population, but factionally determined specifically on a PVP server. I mean seriously how can we expect to play on a PVP server with only 50 players versus 1.5 K players. If they allowed free server transfers according to each faction number under a certain amount say 100 (which they probably do not) then people will balance the servers themselves.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply and give me a heads up.



Which is not the devs fault, IMHO.
It´s the management. I wouldn´t be surprised, if the devs were as frustrated as the player sometimes.
And of course they defend the management - the management is paying their paychecks :wink:

The low pop realms will be merged with HIGH realms, exactly because of this reason - that the player will have a huge playerbase to play with (except those weird roleplayers who are determined to stick on their “dead” realms. Crazy folks… :wink: :smiley: )

They know, that most people want many other players around them. This is the only reason why they merge the low pop realms.

The only problem is, they only have numbers to decide, which realm is “dead” and which is not.
And numbers are not reliable - as you can see at the roleplayers response, and the response from players from Realms like Patchwerk.

They try to- with the player consil.
And if you manage to reach them, like the roleplayers now, they do listen (waves in the direction of Hydraxian Waterlords).
They did not only listen, and keep one realm alive. They actually decided to help the roleplayers to reunite, with FREE transfers from ALL realms. Again, it does not help the german roleplayers, due to the language barrier for us older people, but the intention is clear. They want to help us.
And face it: we are the smallest, no, tiniest part of their playerbase.
And they even listen to us

The problem is:
MANY years ago, we have had a team of CM, who were working for the different regions. The germans, us, french, eu-en… always teams. they sometimes even had time to just respond to a funny thread with their own comment. Even if they did not decide anything, the player had the impression: Blizzard does listen and talk to us, and even joking around with us.
then, some “smart” guy decided to cut down the GM and CM numbers. in the end, only one was left everywhere, and no no one.
From a financial point of view this maybe made sense, but the player get the impressoin: they don´t care.

I guess, the few remaining CMs are really busy with the stuff they have to do. Stuff, many years a go a huge team of CM would have done. Of course they can not listen to the players as they could back then, and therefore the devs do not even know about a lot of problems.
But here we can not blame the few remaining CMs (i am sure, Kaivax and his team are doing their best) and we can not blame the devs.
It´s the dumb management.

As i wrote somewhere else:
Blizzard is loosing their community and player. not in numbers (not yet) but the trust, and the trust is more difficult to regain.

We are here, because no one does belive, there is someone left in the german board who does listen (and probably not even here, because they do not have time).

The Management messed it up, period.

But i see, what the devs are trying with Dragonflight and Classic (and listening) and therefore get the benefit of the doubt from me.
(but i nevertheless cancelled my sub… cough I was wondering if i should play on Era Celebras but if the main reason are “numbers”, they probably decided already do kill the Era Celebras, too… :broken_heart:)

Because there was no update yet, except for Hydraxian Waterlords to make the RP happy. The rest ist still to be decided i guess.

We have waited 8 weeks back then until Celebras was announced.
I would wait, until the final ream list is announced, before i pay money…

But yes, you have to speak out. Loud. Everywhere. because the management messed it up in such a way, that we do not even know, if and if so, which communication channel is left.
The issue is not, that the devs do not listen (imho), but the issue is, to reach them. They just can´t know what does work on Celebras, and what does not work on Patchwerk…

I see your problem here. Never did much raids (except TBC back then), and not a lot of dungeons, i do not need a lot of player to be happy. But i do know, that progress player do have other needs.
However, the final list will be released before the 10.8 (obviously). I would wait till then

I couldn´t agree more. I think the DEVS know it, but the management is apparently too dumb to get it.
Who is happy, satisfied, and does feel “heard”, will stay. Who always feels neglected, will leave - and not come back.
To regain trust, after it is broken, is very difficult -as you can see on some of my friends (though they always talk about Toshy with a lot of :hearts: :heart_eyes: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:)

I agree here… But I think, they talk about it, because Aggrend for example is not just “a small dev” but someone with responsibility AFAIK. I guess, it is expected from him-
And reading between the lines, I think he clearly has the players (all of them) in mind. He knows that there are different types of players with different needs, and they try to figure out how to help everyone.

Which “pressure”? back then, the german board was turned upside down (poor Toshy :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:)

But today?
ok, 650 posts in the german board, no one will ever see, and the same here spread accross different threads…
It would have been easy, to ignore the roleplayers and kill Hydraxian Waterlords, too.

I get your frustration here.
I really think, the devs try their best to figure out communication. The management has killed the direct communication - CM/GM/CS to them (and back), no they try to get it done the best with the money/possibilty they have.
I do not even thnk the council is a good idea. There is no link from the EU board to there, we do not even know it does exist. The germans who do not speak english, do not understand it. and if you udnerstand it and know it does exist ( i did because a Patchwerk player pointed me to that post regarding low pop realms), it is difficult to reach it, because the dumb webside is keeping redirecting me to the german page grrr
it is already an adventure, to reach the english EU page - i do not know how we are supposed to find the hydraxian waterlords forum, at least those players who are not used to redirects/changhing urls and that kind off stuff.

I agree so much on this.
And i feel sorry for the GM/CM/Devs, because i am convinced they try their best, with what they get. And the player are still frustrated.

Don´t agree on that. :see_no_evil:



Yes, I agree with almost everything you said.

I am just a bit more confident, because i saw that the devs do listen - and try their best.

The question is, how/when they will help Patchwerk (and if they are allowed to)-

I really hope the best for you on your realm, and i get your frustration.

It´s a pretty sad thing, that the devs who try their best now, are loosing the community and the trust, due to dumb management decisions and missing communication and, at least “felt” missing connection.

The Patchwerk player (German PVP) have exactly the same issue, just the other way around: almost extinct alliance, but the horde is still there.

Their realm is not on the list, too.

You are not alone with this problem :slight_smile:

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Great suggestion - keep everyone happy!
I’ll post to the US forum, citing you!

:blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart: :blue_heart:


I wish you could do something about Ammenar too (french PvP server)


I would happily move all my characters to ZT from Ashbringer if all of our guild moved, we speak to some people from ZT already who are really cool.

At the moment we are really struggling on Ashbringer.


When will the PvE to PvP transfer restrictions for horde on classic era be lifted?

Please include Ashbringer as it IS dead. You can’t find any dungeons going and a lot of guild has been disbanded because of lack of players.

The following suggestion:

  • Include it on the list and move players away
  • Merge with the most popular server (not going to happen, but would balance it)
  • Give free transfer option because it’s low (Blizzard might lose money by giving free transfer, but keep the players)
  • Highly focus free tranfer towards Ashrbinger.

Anything that will get me play more of the game.


I think never as it is actually part of the changes of WotLK that are supposed to doom WoW like Heirlooms, RDF and Dual Spec.

I don’t see who restricting it benefits. It just prevents people who were playing on pve horde from playing now that populations have dropped off.

The idea is that Alliance and Horde actually hate each other so that you will not get lured into having sympathy with the enemy you have to decide which side are you on. As an RPler I have actually never understood the desire of PvP as it is unpleasant and get in the way of the talking.

I think he is talking about moving chars from PVE realms to PVP, not having both factions on one realm.

On my old RP-PVP Realm we have had a “light” guild with Priests, Paladins, Warriors (and one "undercover Warlock. Adoptive daughter from our Paladin guild master :laughing: ), and an “enemy” guild with undead.

This was always fun when we met each other in “the wild”.
Should i follow, or not? attack, or not?
There was some, not planned, cross faction RP.
Good old times…

I´d wish, Blizzard would listen to us.
I do not want to loose my RP :frowning:

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Oh that. That whas because you should not have it easy to level on a pve realm and then go pvp. But yeah that explenation is now bogus as there are enough one faction realms and dead realms to be able to play.