Oh, we are more or less having a debate about the subject here. Since our main source, Blizzards lore about arcane, is as stated before inconsistent and ever changing we are forced to speculate and find other sources which then turns into another debate about which sources are valid and if we are even interpreting them correctly or even the same way.
Lets take that unholy light for example. Is it unholy light because the caster named the spell so or is it unholy light because the caster is a demon? Good luck proving anything with the information we have. Instead of getting the right answer we can at the best get the popular answer through discussion, but thatâs it. At the end of the day we most likely roll with the ârule of coolâ whatever that works best for the story.
My headcannon is on the ManâAri Eredar arcane mage question is this:
The Eredar was infused, as stated by lore, by Sargeras Fel Might. As such, Sargeras being a titan, arcane very much being core of its being - it would go figure that Sargeras would also empower the arcane element as part of his might.
Now, to add to this theory, is that Sargeras wanted the Eredar to be something else than demons, to be more âsentientâ, to have a different train of thought and fill different functions. As such, as he empowered them, it seems plausible if not likely, that he modifed their forms to be more âordered demonsâ.
He did chose them especialy for their arcane and magical technological provess after all. So it seems logical getting hands on that expertise would be core.
All specualtion, but it is a fun thought to play with. Giving Sargeras some credit for the ManâAri Eredar being special (and being, âless demonicâ than demons - feeling regret and all that).
My take on it is that arcane magic in WoW is something that virtually anyone with enough intelligence can learn - so it is power that one can simply take. That is why it is studied overall. Compared to shamans or priests it is different when your powers are divine in nature, they are most often granted (or denied) to one by a higher beings such as the elements or the light. (It is not as black and white since we have for example the dark shaman who use decay to control the elements instead of serving them).
Not just in WoW but in other rpg:s arcane casting is something you use by weaving signs into the air and using invocations, reagents all kinds of stuff. Warlocks are often magi who went too far and even warlock trainers tell the player that arcane only corrupts the weak. So my reasoning is that if the source of the power is different the method of casting still is the same, altough I belive fel breaks the strict rules of arcane but makes it up by sacrificing some souls and risking a few burnt fingers. But yes, I think it is completely fine for demons to use arcane.
It is used by fallen (and risen) paladins in Icecrown, which turn into some sort of unholy paladins. A cool questline, if you ask me.
This is an open debate because as you said, magic in WoW tends to be all but coherent.
You have characters who believe that studying is the key to a greater understanding of the arcane, as arcane is often told to be based in knowledge etc., but you also have characters claiming that they wield arcane naturally, without the need to study, as is the case with dracthyr.
When it comes to dragons, we can siphon their essences, hence it seems more than a mere predisposition.
As for learning arcane, apparently arcane and fel donât work well together, as per lore, and while it is still possible to wield them in conjunction to an extent, it is likely that the two fight each other and seek to cancel one another out.
I find that RPing both an archmage and a greater warlock as some sort of multi-class without any drawback comes across as a bit cheap, but this is due to negative experiences Iâve had, too.
As for now I feel the discussion has been fruiful. So my current take now from this is: Demons are naturaly chaotic and Fel is simly natural to them and would find Arcane even underwhelming at the first place. They can feed on it however which would influence mind and even remove the Fel aura around the demon. Casting Arcane would probably be met with resistance from the demonâs own Fel twisted body and soul but powerful and expierenced big brain sorcerers like Eredar would be able to pull it off. So Eredar mage is possible, but this Eredar wouldnât use much Fel then due to the difficulties I guess. So if the demon decided to go with one school, Arcane is limited naturaly and if goes with it anyway, then it requiers limiting Fel. The limited school would go max to some small cantrips or simple bolts or something. With this we could even eliminate some OP multiclassing, while Eredar mage being viable RP option if the player does some writing behind it.
I was asking becouse I believed demons canât cast Arcane but stumbled upon artwork of Eredar Mage. I didnât wanted to start discussion there and wasnât sure myself anyway so I went here. Thank you all for responses. And ye, I prefer lore over what is in gameplay. We donât even have a magic school for Death despite the magic existing at least since SL if I am correct and the devs arent gonna rework DK and other stuff over that.
Yeah, you are absolutely right. The concept of self-taught mage or sorcerer is something I have met earlier in the WoW RP community, before dracthyr. I think or more likely speculate that dragons and their kin are so affiliated with the order that using arcane is something that comes very naturally to them - like a druid who uses nature magic due to being so attuned with the nature. So I argue it is still mostly studyable, but there are expections to this - as you pointed out.
This is probably some newer lore, could you elaborate me about the source? If this has something to do with demonhunters then I have very little knowledge about the matter since I have not read much about them beyond the basics. But the two forces fighting each other and trying to cancel each other kinda makes fel and arcane sound like sentient beigns, which I donât really think is a case.
It is about chasing after a mage who made a demonic portal and used runes to stabilize it. In the page there are books which contain information about the runes used for the ritual. One of the better quests that describes how the magic works. Also it kinda fits to this topic since it is about a mage, who casts demonic magic.
I wouldnât be surprised if the same character also partaked in fencing duels in Dalaran sewers during his studies, so now he is a master swordsman aswell. Jokes aside, I am not a fan of those master of all characters. I kinda wish that having a balanced character would be some common sense.
This is basically the premise for hedge-mages. As an amusing sidebar, in The Last Guardian, we learn that Khadgar was taught of such magi while an apprentice himself.
As a child, he learned from most of his lessons that non-Dalaran mages, wild, untrained, and self-taught wizards without restraint, control, and thought, always ended in the same fashion with a bad end, and sometimes, though not often, destroying a large amount of the surrounding countryside with them.
Mind you that in Dalaran itâs also a derogatory term for magi who trained outside the Kirin Tor, so what Khadgar was taught as a young man by the Kirin Tor may have to be taken with a grain of salt.
So where dracthyr are concerned, Iâm inclined to agree with this take.
Coupled with the fact that Neltharion designed these things to be strong with arcane magic, as we see in the most recent raid. Their affinity is a deliberate feature.
I donât disagree. With that being said, thereâs probably some truth to the ill-gotten reputation of such magi. I doubt the Kirin Tor would send magi out into the world to create the aforementioned sites of destruction, just so that they could discredit hedge-magi back home.
Yeah my expectation is that there are definitely some âhedge-magesâ who ended up blowing themselves up and those stories get talked up a lot, while those self-taught wizards who can control themselves areâŠwell, âone of the good onesâ, âthe rare exceptionsâ, etc. etc. regardless of what the actual self-immolation ratio looks like.
âHmmpph,â said the Kingâs Champion. âAn ostler has a mood and he kicks the dog. A mage has his moods and a town disappears. No offense meant.â
Didnât know this. Thanks for the heads up! I should read those book myself sometime. I have only read citations of those books in a very good and extremely thorough magic guide written in old defiasrp-forum by Drustai.
Funny that this showed up here since the guide I mentioned started with this citation
Indeed!
Even if I would hold that a margin of freedom can always be used: you can be both a mage and a fel-mancer, I would just not overdo it. There has to be a reason if itâs not a popular choice among demons so, for some extra flavour, itâs noteworthy to acknowledge in some way - the two forces are conflicting. How? What does your character plans to do about it if they wield them together? That is up to you, the player!
We have seen powerful characters use arcane and fel at once (Gulâdan, during the Nighthold encounter, uses both arcane and fel when he channels the Nightwell, though that is due to the Nightwellâs energies themselves).
Itâs very much demon hunterâs lore. I think it was quoted earlier. Back then, arcane and fel were the same school of magic, hence a demon casting arcane would have been rather normal.
Now that they are on the opposite spectrum, this happens (credit goes to Elenthas for quoting it earlier):
Before I became a demon hunter, I practiced the arcane arts. I still retain some of that knowledge, though the fel makes it all but impossible to use. https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/One_Battle_at_a_Time
And then, always in DH questlines, this bit:
Fel energy is counteracted by arcane energy. We mark our bodies with arcane runes to keep our fel forces in check. https://www.wowhead.com/quest=39937/opposites-repel
These quests suggest there is some friction between the two forces, which makes sense given how they are [now] polar opposites.
Now I was just browing Hearthstone cards and noticed Lothraxion is classified as demon there. His WoW classification might truly be only technical then.
Fel and Arcane are on the same dichotomy. Like Life and Death, Light and Void (you can wield both of those as a disc priest).
What -is- more dangerous, catastrophically explosive is mixing Fel and Void together. Thereâs that entire boss in Hellfire Citadel where the idea is to NOT cross the Fel and Void wires or you wipe the raid.
Hearthstone classification isnât lore, itâs based on visuals. The rule of thumb is âif it looks like an X, it will be classified as an X; if not, then notâ.
For example, the Wrathion card from Gadgetzan is not classified as a dragon because it depicts him in his humanoid form. The card text lampshades this.
Maybe, altough the classification in WoW seems still to be technical, and while probably more valid, I would still take with grain of salt. Direct lore statements and exmples will always be best.
