On +17s we get hero gear on +18s we get Myth from the great vault but we can’t obtain Myth with grinding high dungeons why can’t we grind +21, +22, +23 & +24 for Myth track gear?
Can we add this Blizz?
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I agree that 0 rewards for keys above 20 is lame. And they should reward it with something.
However, what would the point of the vault be then?
And before you flame me with “mythic raiders get it”, well they have a 1 week loockout. They cant spam the raid all day. So the vault is “bad luck protection” in case nothing droped that week. Which happens quite a lot in raids.
In M+ on the other hand, you can literally spam the same dungeon 100 times.
Also, the issues you are presenting are part of a greater problem. The gear aquisition of M+ in general is capped because you can use it in other forms of content. Primerally Raiding. And that is a major issue that blizz will have to solve in time (I hope).
i think it would be good for the game to remove the importance and rng nature of the vault.
you can go all season without getting the myth track items that you want or need. you have no control at all.
i understand though if myth track items drop from m+ it would be final bis too fast.
on the other hand what it matters anyways?
Unlock it in the .5 patch and do 25+ then it’s a little more reasonable.
I cant prove it in any way. Its just a “feeling” or an “observation” if you will:
But when people are fully geared, somehow they find M+/Raiding a bit less rewarding. They stop doing it for fun.
Many just re-roll some alt or something to go through the process all over again.
So if people geared up too fast, then overall participation after a few weeks is noticeable.
So TLDR: I find that artificially delaying loot drops via RNG is lame, as does anyone. But, on the other hand, something has to be done to slow down gearing.
And putting a vendor with an absurdly high price tag on items wont help. Its deterministic, but when you really see the price it has people will complain anywais. Even if it would have taken the same, or more, to get the item via RNG.
yes, i am usually one of those who gear up 10 chars in a season and push most of them to 2.5k and maybe 1 or 2 to get portals.
usually dont enjoy pushing because pugging can be too frustrating if always someone is failing everything.
i hate the vault with a passion as it delays max ilvl for non raiders. but yes they had no other option to delay gearing as they dont have any better solution how to make dungeon running rewarding after you gear up.
There is just nothing to get in the long run which is the general problem with all seasonal games.
I played games before that had massive grinds to more or less get richer and afford an item that is 0.2% better than the previous level and upgrading it had a chance to destroy the item.
I also dont have any idea what they could do to make me enjoy running 500 dungeons on 1 char.
maybe award a currency on all levels and give more the higher the key for some transmogs or recolor dyes or whatever, no idea
Well… “raiders” is a super generalized term. Few people actually raid mythic, most raid Heroic (myself included).
So you would be surprised how many people are in the same boat as you.
I hate the vault too. Especially late in the season when you are after specific items. But I find it difficult to figure out an alternative. Atleast, have some bad luck protection algorithm where you cant get the same item twice. That is just lame.
I discussed this with other guildies. They all agree with you. Doing dungeons beyond 20 must give something more than just rating.
I find the extra difficulty and “figuring out how far I can get” appealing. But from what you say, its obviously not the only way to enjoy M+.
So, as you did, my guildies proposed cosmetic rewards instead. That would altleast make it more appealing to more people (not ALL people). Basically, you would have a REASON to gear up those 2 chars you do portals with.
And incentivize you to atleast give the “pushing” business a try. Maybe with a friend instead of a full PuG group. Dunno.
But yes, many people want this. And why not.
But more gear? I would have to see it balanced out appropriately. I definitely would not want to trade harder dungeons for more ilvl gear, that’s for sure.
I would enjoy the challenge if it wasn’t with pugs. With pugs the challenge is not the content but rather getting people that are on the same level as you to really push your limit. In Pugs you can only go as high as your weakest link and you cannot improve as a team as well because you won’t see them anymore
I enjoy pugging because I am not reliant on a schedule or having to wait for someone to be online as it is for most i guess
The thing is that portals are not a good incentive as they basically are useless, especially after season is over.
A title is certainly better but it is only awarded to the super nerds that have a fixed group and play 24/7, this is not something I could even chase after and not because I am not good enough, but I am instantly excluded because of having a life. (skill vs. time restriction I guess?)
Recolor of spells for example could be something interesting.
Regardless what you do it will still just push the reward just to another point and we have the problem again.
then of course people who pug complain that they cannot reach the rewards. So in my opinion higher keys should give more currency to e.g. transmogs. Those transmogs can also be earned if you just run +10s but you would need to run 100 times +10 but only 10 times +25 (fictive numbers obviously)
i don’t think FOMO is the way to go either putting cosmetics and other collectibles on high keys would make people who 100% them feel left out or in need to buy boosts.
I would rather see them put higher gear on +21 or higher it doesn’t matter what +20something it is for all I care they put 12 weeks in the season on +25 keys myth gear the fact it is missing from dropping at all not even later in the season is just weird to me.
Most guildies who were against this (running +23 or higher were like but then we max gear to early.
Im like but I would like to see 2 or even 3 ways to gear a char during a season.
Why not. Nice suggestion there. Im not the right person to give an opinion about this though. But I wonder what other people have to say about this.
If I can suggest: You dont need to have a schedule or wait or some guild/community or whatever. You can go really far with simply having a massive friends list. So large that the moment you come online you always find someone to play with.
And believe me, doing keys with 1 friend is a massive upgrade to doing it full PuG.
So do networking. If you enjoyed playing with a group, immediately offer your key to play, and ask if you can add them into the friends list. Dont forget to add a note to that friend with a short “who is this guy” description for later.
And proactively whisper these people and offer to play. Even if you need to wait 20 min for him to finish whatever he is doing. Its worth the wait. Trust me.
And I can give you my 100% seal of approval that if you do this for long enough, you WILL find 1 or 2 people that happen to be online when you are. And you click with them really well, and enjoy dungeons.
actually i have quite a friendlist that people added me after the runs, but the are probably like me and dont want to whisper and ask if they want to run something.
You sir are doing something right if people add you.
Capitalize on that advantage. Whisper back. Enjoy. 
Somewhere there has to be a line, where content becomes aspirational and no longer grants extra gear. And that is 18-20 atm. Because if wr give myth gear at +23, so why +28 shouldn’t give Omega tier gear? Or +32 Gigachad gear?
Like the sound of that !
Made me smile… Gigachad gear… I want that now more than ever…
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