Can we finally nerf Sniper Shot?

PVP Arenas
21

Nah, that’s just Bac specifically. I do vouch for oneshot playstyle, but I don’t like overtuned MM, I want the oneshots to make sense and be preventable if the setup fails.

You have the most nuanced perspective on MM i´ve seen from a MM main.

Thanks, that’s what 10k hours and 20k arenas do to a person xD But yeah, I do feel your perspective. I do think that MM should stay a oneshotter, since that’s what’s it been made out to become since like post-Legion or whatever, but as I said, in my eyes oneshots need to make sense, and oneshots and defensives are a completely different debate. Hunters in general do lack defensives and are squishy as hell as a result, and MM specifically has taken the biggest slap because unlike most other casters, basically minus Shadow Priest, has been unable to become the non-caster turret the rest has become (Baladruid, Ele, Demo, you know the drill). As such, it is unable to deal sufficient damage, especially into plates because plates don’t seem to be taking physical damage, and on top of that the game is utterly littered with micro-CC and gap closers. There’s a reason why Sniper Shot has a 60+ yard range, it’s because the spec should be staying further away and deal damage, however you need to get into melee to do cc properly, and you can’t leave melee because of so many gap closers and micro-CC that are in the game currently.

Long story short, the game is in terrible balance. It’s not an MM problem, it’s a game problem. Unlike others, I want people to look at the bigger picture. I don’t want MM to be OP because everything else is, I want the rest to not be OP to allow proper spec distribution. MM damage is fine into leathers currently, so we just need to make that to be the case for all armor types, and that’S what some sort of armor penetration mechanic and further balancing around that should achieve.

22

Or you need to read others more.

Nope, you are just happy to find a docile sheep who can’t see MM is FROST DK tier now.

23

You do forget that unlike casters, MM is fully immune to regular interrupts, deadzone was also removed like a decade ago, micro CC is indeed a problem but comparing DH´s eyebeam or “the hunt” is more simular than comparing MM to a caster.

Survival tactics being a 90% wall for 3 sec and 30s CD, survival of the fittest and an undispellable bubble paired with extremely good mobility n freedom allowing them to kite very well while being in mail armor, i just dont see why MM would be worse off defensively than say a boomkin, warlock, n other classes who are prone to getting tunneled alot.

“Squishy” compared to what? a warrior? absolutely, a feral? hell no the feral is paper. I also find DK´s alot easier to kill than hunters n infact theres a quite long list of classes i find easier to kill than hunters. Im still mainly forced to go hunter because if i dont he´ll global someone.

24

MM is FDK tier currently, in terms of participation and rating span alike. However that doesn’t change the fact that MM damage in principle is in an alright state, but buffing it would inherently just make it become an unstoppable turret as always, because Blizz is too lazy to give a damn about the spec.

25

BGs are not balanced and no one cares about them in arena section. If you want to qq about us go to BG section even there people will cringe away from you because no one cares what happens there…

And you should not upon your mouth too much you fotm rolled warrior enjoying 2x charges 2x bladestorm and 2x of everything else

26

I really don’t, as I said, specs like Bala and Ele barely have to cast anymore to kill, which also makes them immune to regular interrupts. Plus they’re fully mobile while doing damage. MM either has to cast a 3 sec sniper shot, a 2.5 sec aimed shot unless Trueshot is up, or cast rapid fire, which are all stoppable with CC which melees are overflowing with currently, and all that is physical damage on top of that.

dont see why MM would be worse off defensively than say a boomkin, warlock, n other classes who are prone to getting tunneled alot.

This is an illusion - if you leave a boomkin or warlock on freecast mode, they will kill. MM won’t. Since the throughput is nowhere close to these, MM is not even dangerous , and especially not if you sit it, because all three main damage-dealers are interruptible with hard CC. That being said I am one of those people that were actually glad for the Survival Tactics change and I do say it frequently that it’s mad good. The problem is the rest very much isn’t, and it adds up. You need to realise that in some form or another, sufficient damage throughput is a defensive on its own. You can freecast into a warrior even if he doesn’t interrupt you and you have no chance of winning the match. Oh, and don’t forget precognition exists. You know what happens if two people kick you at once in an RSS if you have precog? Even if the first one lands, the second one still triggers complete cc/knockback immunity and allows turret freecasting, because they haven’t been able to fix this dumb thing for 3 seasons now. MM doesn’t have the luxury of precog paired with sufficient damage, because unless it’s a happy accident or a super bad player, nobody will kick you, guaranteeing you a complete immunity to cast OR defend yourself.

27

I rerolled FURY in season 1 after the retpocalypse n you want to use that as an argument? Its not like you needed to put effort into appearing as more of a moron but i see you put special effort this time around, usually your regular posts are plenty enough to get that point across to everyone but i do appreciate the extra effort.

If you stopped backpaddling perhaps you wouldnt need to suggest giving hunters 2x turtles that heals to full among other suggestions you´ve made.

1 Like
28

This is true, both balance n ele are pretty close to 100% instant casts.

Warlock, mage and spriest still cast quite alot though, all 3 can do some stuff with just instants but they severely lack kill preasure if they rely entirely on instants. I do think MM poses significant killthreat if left untouched. I do agree that if the warrior is on you you´re going to struggle to deal relevant damage into the warrior, especially arms since they were buffed recently to be more sticky than DH´s which i also think is absurd.

Then again, MM has the tools to kite alot of classes n if you can trade favorably while standing still n firing into say a warrior it means the class is going to automaticly become broken due to having the option of kiting quite well. With how MM currently plays i see no way to balance this in an arena setting.

One huge factor i´ve noticed is that bad hunters freeze up like deer in headlight the moment their sWifTy onESHot doesnt actually oneshot n they end up either panic turtling or just go splat at random after not pressing any buttons. Good hunters on the other hand kite when they know they can get away n when they know they cant they just trade back damage as opposed to even trying to kite n in doing so end up doing surprisingly good amonts of damage.

Feign death is also extremely strong now n can mitigate a ton of burst, its just not as noob freindly anymore. I dont get how so many hunters considers a 90% wall on 30s cd to be a nerf, it just requires more brainpower to utilize.

29

Good of you for saying the truth… joining the fotm train rerolling warrior because you got wreckt by MMs in bgs.
Seems like your still getting blasted by us playing on OP warrior class in BGs. Looks like MM is not the problem that your getting total annihilated, its a you issue.

30

all 3 can do some stuff with just instants but they severely lack kill preasure if they rely entirely on instants

I’m not gonna talk about Shadow, but mage and warlock alike have either spammable CC or team CC and tank survivability. Hunters don’t have tank survivability, spammable CC, and in MM’s case, nor instacast damage. This is the reason why BM is dominating 3s currently, it’s persistent castless pressure which allows you to only focus on CC and damage rotation while kiting - your burst is mobile and your CC can be intertwined into it. On the other hand…

I do think MM poses significant killthreat if left untouched

This is no longer true, and it’s the reason for why nobody plays it currently. MM used to be terrifying when freecasting, it no longer is. MM currently only is threatening if you let them stack a specific sequence of spells into a roughly 5-6 second window. This translates into “if you know which 6 seconds to focus MM, they won’t be a threat”, because outside of burst, MM doesn’t have kill potential, nor can it intertwine it’s entire CC rotation into its burst with instant reward, unlike BM (and for that matter, in the current state MM barely has kill potential on plates at all to begin with, which is all the worse; in RSS/3s you only have 1 job if you see an MM against you, and that is sitting them, which literally halves the enemy team damage when not bursting, and nearly completely eliminates the burst window unless paired with like a sub rogue, which again can kill even without the MM so that’s a different debate). You can even see this on warcraftlogs if you check singletarget bossfights, MM is just complete doglevel.

MM has the tools to kite alot of classes

It does, but it doesn’t do damage while kiting, unlike BM. MM has nearly no damage output while kiting, that’S why you sit it. You are guaranteed to either get defensives, or take barely any damage if you sit them. And if you pair that with insufficient burst throughput, the spec stops working.

One huge factor i´ve noticed is that bad hunters freeze up like deer in headlight the moment their sWifTy onESHot doesnt actually oneshot n they end up either panic turtling or just go splat at random after not pressing any buttons. Good hunters on the other hand kite when they know they can get away n when they know they cant they just trade back damage as opposed to even trying to kite n in doing so end up doing surprisingly good amonts of damage.

Yeeeeah, about this. See, this is a rating-specific debate, and I’ve had the luxury to see it firsthand in the past seasons, since while I’m a semi-tryhard 2s player, I play RSS for capping and meming. Obviously, the most reasonable thing to do as MM is to kite and try to stay at max-range right? But if you have melee, you need to follow them, because you can’t cast, so the yautomatically swap you. So either you go in and die, or you stay back. But if oyu stay back, you can’t cc and peel for your teammate. This is bad, but it’s ESPECIALLY bad at low rating, because unlike in high-rated games, your teammates know nothing about how to play and end up dying and then you get blamed for not interfering. It doesn’t change the fact that MM will be focused at high ratings anyway, but if you do try to bypass this problem at low ratings, you won’t change a thing, because people don’t play the game well, and even if you do, you are still relying on 2 other people to do the right thing in a situation, which they won’t.

31

I dont even know how to reply to that. You think fury warrior is fotm rerolling and you think MM needs two turtles that heals you to full everytime you use.

I think your obsession with fury comes from the fact that you´re upset that i use more buttons on my fury warrior than you use on your MM hunter, actually maybe its about the same. You use the S key alot which i do not.

Please keep the comedy going, this is hilariously entertaining!

32

:clown_face:

Pointless to discuss this guy. Better play chess with a pigeon.

1 Like
33

You are wrong. I said we need 2x turtle while it heals us back to full health AND that we can attack while in turtle aswell. Get it right.

Some experienced warrior has to come asap, sit you in a chair so you can learn like a good little boy how to take advantage over 2x charges + leap against F tier class MM with 1 disengage lmao. You have all that mobility and toolkit and you still lose to this dead spec with 1 disengage. You need help.

34

You are wrong. I said we need 2x turtle while it heals us back to full health AND that we can attack while in turtle aswell. Get it right.

Messages like these are when I regret I can’t post pictures like hysterical laughter or bashing my face against a wall.

35

I play all brackets currently n 2s is definately melee dominated, although there are alot of BM hunters too, BM n Rogue is kinda all i encounter atm, that being said i dont think MM is good in 2s at all because its not as burst oriented as 3s n shuffle is but more of a slog.

The problem with MM is that “when its good” its because it deals too much raw damage, Take fury warrior as a prime example which im playing myself currently. If we look at history when fury was considered “viable” most recently being in SL where it was absurdly op rather and everyone played it n it was good because it simply dealt too much raw damage.

MM is in a simular spot, coincidently when these specs are so good infact at dealing damage is the only times when people like Bac suddenly starts piping up since he can do his PvE rotation n doesnt get punished for his backpaddling.
MM has alot of tools but the only times its truly “good” is when it doesnt need to utilize its actual kit n just do PvE damage that becomes unhealable which is why i think it needs a full scale rework.

36

You truly are the gift that keeps on giving!

you called MM F tier in season 2 aswell when it was very overpowered, i guess the urge to press the S key was so overwhelming that you were just never able to actually finish your aimed shot cast?

Im doing perfectly fine with my warrior thank, but i appreciate your concern i really do. I think there has been some misscommunication between us lil Bac, i should´ve been more specific n said that i find GOOD hunters to be annoying, the backpaddling ones such as yourself are perfectly fine n i could definately see you needing two bubbles that lets you attack.

Unfortunately in this game they need to balance classes for everyone n not uhm… people such as yourself!

37

People like this are when I regret conversing with. I also imagine that people like you doesnt want to be the last champion to live with good proper defenses, but instead prefer to rot in 1x turtle with no heals and die by dots while in turtle LOL. It makes me want to bash their head into a wall.

38

that being said i dont think MM is good in 2s at all because its not as burst oriented as 3s n shuffle is but more of a slog.

That’s why I can see the MM throughput in a clearer light, I see the kill potential directly, I know how bad MM is in 2s currently, and my point of view on things is that all imbalance stems from imbalanced 2s, because then you can stack imbalanced 2s specs into 3s compositions that stomp the underdogs even harder, which is MMs case exactly. There’s a reason why highest MM in 2s currently is 2082 and that it’s #185 overall, with 330 cr gap away from the highest player (obviously rdru). Not to mention I got my rival on day one and I’m still top 18 EU MM in 2s even though I haven’t touched it since.

The problem with MM is that “when its good” its because it deals too much raw damage

I never said anything against that, that’s how Blizz is dealing with MM. What I’m proposing with Sniper Shot would ameliorate that.

MM has alot of tools but the only times its truly “good” is when it doesnt need to utilize its actual kit n just do PvE damage that becomes unhealable which is why i think it needs a full scale rework.

Yup, can’t disagree with that. As a byproduct, you agreed with me on MM’s state being pretty subpar currently, so I take it. Glad we’re getting to a successful unanimity.

39

Now you are lying. Fury got op not because of only raw dmg but also mobility, defensives AND healing more than a healer.
MM can never match the profile fury had at that time because we dont have anything other than some pesky dmg. Learn to play against MM zero brain cell warrior.

40

The game as a whole has never been balanced around 2v2, you wont see many casters at all in 2s, boomy n ele which we agreed dont actually cast do exist but overall its mostly just rogues, warriors, dk´s, dh´s and BM´s with a healer, most commonly a rdruid.

That is not a byproduct at all, quite the opposite. Im always happy to discuss n debate with people who makes real arguments.

I do indeed agree that MM´s state is subpar, i do however not think it should be buffed but just reworked from scratch, then again im also weary about reworks after having seen Ret, DH, Rogue “reworks” that flinged them all to godhood so the trackrecord just isnt all that promising in that regard.

Either way im always happy to discuss even things i disagree about with people like you due to the simple fact that you use actual arguments where as people like Bac has a mental breakdown n crawls back into the toddler stage where he just screams n being accidently funny.

1 Like