Put your feet up and raid log. Content is easy enough.
Sending thoughts and prayers, hope your hostage situation reolves itself.
Have you given ff14 a chance?
No, but I have considered returning to GW2.
Is that any good? I tried ff for a bit. Didnt feel it.
GW2 is pretty amazing, it’s free to play too.
Its pve mode is entirely cooperative, meeting another person in the world is a joy rather than a hindrance.
I tried it for a while after quitting retail in Cata, and it seemed amazing in theory: gorgeous graphics, varied classes, “living” zones where stuff happens on it’s own, seemless grouping for PvE. It should have been a blast. But somehow, after going through something like 3 maps, I was so bored I just didnt ever start it back up. Maybe it had to do with my MMO fatigue after 4 expansions of WoW.
You are fully capable of opening Google Scholar and go search for yourself, but fine. Here you go:
My argument was not that you should leave the game, but that the convenience and dumbed down gameplay that the RDF caters to exists in retail. My main argument is this: Blizzard likely has more to gain by keeping retail and classic separate as they appeal to different audiences.
I’m sorry Blizzard decided not to copy and paste your favourite version of the game, but I’m quite satisfied with the new direction they’ve taken with WLK classic.
I had these exact same thoughts before Classic was first released. I was not hyped nor optimistic, yet there was something to the design in Classic that made people communicate. In my time levelling in both original Classic and in Classic TBC I made way more friends than I’ve done in any other modern MMORPG. So I don’t believe that we can blame it all on how the internet has changed, even if there’s no doubt some truth to it.
Classic Era and WotLK also appeal to different audiences yet the only difference is that Era is mostly faithful while WotLK Classic is treated by Blizzard as personal toy they can tweak and adjust as they see fit without knowing who they design it for. Titan Rune Dungeons are perfect example being too rough to use as catching up tool (not helped by community gating it behind GS that’s higher than what dungeons drop) while being too easy for those at current endgame.
And in my time leveling during WotLK Classic i made less friends than I did in RDF centric Final Fantasy XIV. Fun fact one of people I met there is the reason I decided to give WoW another chance.
The answer to this will always be that the experience you so desire and want to keep here exists in classic Era. So why those wanting WotLK experience are ti be left out.
Blizzard was upfront with their design goals for Wrath of the Lich King Classic.
The second goal is about making sure Heroic dungeons stay attractive throughout the entire expansion. The Emblems and items they drop should always be valuable, even late in the expansion. They should also remain an interesting challenge throughout the entire expansion, rather than becoming excessively easy as your gear improves.
I fully support Blizzard in this, even if I do view their Heroic+ as a mixed success. The original WLK dungeons were awful. Did they serve as a catchup mechanic? Sure. Just like dungeons in retail serve as good platforms to start gearing for end game. It’s just that they’re boring.
I see. What was it about the design of the RDF in Final Fantasy XIV that allowed you to make friends?
I’m satisfied with WLK Classic.
Nothing related to RDF honestly. The game’s simply not as focused around content grind. Basically every piece of content (with the exception of current tier Raids) has automated grouping and despite that people form guild and hang out together just talking. Something I haven’t seen in Classic WotLK where most interactions are… Goal oriented so to speak.
Shame they screwed up. HC+ is barely a challenge if you’re already in T7 gear. At that point also anything except daily dungeon is worthless since gear is obsolete and only daily drops Current tier Emblems.
Now HC++ will probably be better but thats thanks to Ulduar Gear being buffed and HC++ providing emblems you can exchange for 10m HM some of which is on “BiS forever”. Even then the HC++ will be abandoned except for daily as soon as people get what they need (which frankly on PTR apparently takes 2-3 days of semi complete world tours). Not to mention that it will likely kill any participation in 10m HM Ulduar.
Again it is a solid proof that Blizzard has no idea how to achieve their goal and failed to identify target for Heroic Dungeons.
And I’m not. As the dweller of smallest realm that’s not HW and not dying I’d prefer to be able to do dungeons as I level up my alt and maybe even run few with friend I have on other realm but hey, no dice.
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OK then.
The effect of ostracizing someone and reporting that character to a “ban-list” or using other means of sanctioning such as blocking that character from future cooperation has limited or no effect across servers.
Which hasn’t been true since long before RDF was put in the game. Ignore someone and you won’t get matched up with him again. This was even true for cross realm battlegrounds.
Also, you should probably at least read the conclusion:
The results reveal a low level of both instrumental and sociable interaction between PUG players. Communication is held to a minimum and dungeons completed at a fast pace. Even in the event of downtime sociable interaction is rare. However, cases with a high level of sociable interaction were found when several players from the same guild played together in the same group.
As we’ve been telling you goons for half a year now, socialization doesn’t happen in 5 man pugs. It happens in guilds, regardless of activity. Stop trying to force it.
Hell, the first study even has a full detail of the social interactions going on through the players 5 man runs and they’re exactly the same as they are now, 12 years later.
A key change that affected social experience came with the Group Finder interface, starting in late 2006. Group Finder automates the process of finding others for the collaborative activities of “dungeons” (small group activities) and “raids” (large group activities). In December 2006, Blizzard introduced “Looking For Group,” the first version of Group Finder, named after a phrase players used when forming groups in chat channels. The interface allowed players to hasten the process of creating and organizing groups within a realm by advertising that they were looking for group members, or searching through a list of partially-formed groups. Even with Looking for Group, however, there were often still long wait times. In a patch released in December 2009, Blizzard attempted to remedy this problem by providing a larger pool of potential group members that drew players from multiple realms. While more players decreased wait times, the new system changed how players interacted within a group.
Explain people behaviour in classic dungeons then.
I’d comment more but paywall and all that, so hard to. Your cherrypicked quote does nothing to explain how the system changed how players interact with the group though and as we can see from classic that doesn’t have RDF, maybe you should conclude that RDF wasn’t the reason it changed.
My boy, retail has hard 5 mans something I’m blatantly not interested in and Era is RDF free.
Why is it you get all the options while telling me to quit the one for me?
Lol please, if you’re happy about classic communication you really need to get out more.
They were. For the exact same reason they are now.
Badges from dailies.
H+ has literally not changed this one iota. Not one iota.
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I think the limited action bars and abilities can be quite a turnoff for a lot of players coming from more standard MMOs from the time for sure, and that’s likely what happened to you.
I will say though, if you group with people the combo system has some amazing synergies that really make the combat flow.
I liked the weapon system in GW2, changing abilities based on what you equip … would be cool, something like warr with axe would have mortal strike, and warr with mace would have devastate …
But that was like all, rest of the gameplay … and to be honest of the world too … was pretty boring …
Also dont know if that changed, but when I tried it, there was lot of stuff locked behind DLCs … you could basically play wotlk with other people, but no northrend or outland for you …
The article states that the ignore function has no effect across servers.
In a non-cross server environment, ostracization is not only a good tool but a natural one. Bad behaviour is punished. The ignore tool is pointless in a cross-server environment because either way you’re unlikely to have a repeat encounter with the person you want to ignore anyways.
Petty behaviour is not punished, it’s ignored* and eventually accepted. Go and read up on toxicity in gaming if you want more proof on that.
*Note that it’s not the player that is being ignored via any ignore-feature. It’s the behaviour that is being ignored.
It can happen in 5man pugs. Classic vanilla and classic TBC were proof of this. If it happens less in WLK it’s worth examining how WLK dungeons are different from TBC and vanilla ones. Because it’s more likely that there are key differences in the game design rather than pegging it all on changed online behaviours. I’m not excluding the latter – no doubt it plays a role. That does not mean it has to be that way always.
In short: Cross-server = no social repercussions to bad behaviours.
Does that mean that RDF did all the damage? Not necessarily. The design of WLK dungeons is likely as much to blame.
Cataclysm tried to revert the design by making 5 man heroics challenging again and this was promptly dumbed down to placate the wailing RDF-players who had become accustomed to easy loot. If zerg-content is your idea of fun then more power to you, but personally I’m happy that Blizzard decided not to go down that route again. Because it was the absolute worst part of WLK.
Pray tell, what exactly is the point of this sentence here? I get that you’re trying to mock me but I’d still like to hear you elaborate your thought process behind this attempted insult.
Which is nonsense.
https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/eu-en/11824414332-the-dungeon-finder-what-to-know/
If one character is on another character’s Ignore list, though, these characters will never be grouped together, regardless of how long either player has been in queue. This also applies to characters from other realms placed on one’s Ignore list.
This was true for BGs as well.
Also, Classic proves without a doubt that “black lists” and whatnot simply do not have the effect you think it does. There’s not a singular server discord out there without a black list that doesn’t do anything.
My boy, classic was boosting or spellcleaves for 5 mans. And boosting was vastly more popular, to the point of them having to nerf it.
Also, can?
It can happen in RDF too. Cause it’s not about the tool. It’s about the people.
It’s exactly the same in WotLK ones as it was in classic ones.
Say hi if you’re feeling up for it or simply leave it at a ty for run.
Seriously, go outside sometimes.
There has never been any of this anyway.
Ah, you’re one of those.
Yeah, sorry, Cataclysm heroics were overtuned and even organized groups would simply skip certain heroics cause they weren’t worth the bother. They left the day 1 patch undone cause they went on Christmas holiday.
The Cataclysm launch was cataclysmic.
Why? What is it you’re hoping for?
Shadowlands that’ll be transformed to your liking?
That if you want socialization from WoW you find a guild and do most of it on discord.
Exactly how we did it in the original, 'cept with teamspeak and forums.
3 Likes
You’re missing the point entirely. I am not saying that the function does not exist – just that the effect of the function is not really comparable to the social ostracization pre-RDF.
If you’re a ninjalooting scumbag in a non-cross server environment, people will take note and likely spread the word. Eventually this may lead to you actually struggling to find groups, as people will recognize you and have you kicked due to your past behaviours.
If you’re a ninjalooint scumbag in a cross-server environment and the whole team ignores you – big whoop. You just click the queue button and find new complete strangers who are wholly unaware of your shenanigans.
It’s not impossible, but try to log in on retail and run a dungeon and see how sociable the average player is. Most players who queue up for dungeons do so for the purpose of gaining exp and not for the purpose of socialising.
However, is there a reason to communicate in retail’s dungeon finder? People brought up GW2 and that’s not really a game that is known for its strong community either – because you rarely have to communicate with anyone. You can do it, of course, but unless others are inclined to communicate themselves you won’t get a response. Meaning the act of communicating becomes itself an effort as there exists no in-game need for communication meaning you’ll have to invent things to talk about, whereas in an environment like Classic it’s just a natural byproduct of playing the game.
Citation needed.
Overtuned according to you, perhaps. Unless you fancy backing this up with a source it’s your word against mine, and I don’t think they were overtuned at all. I had a blast with them.
Basically this: no matter how much they screw up whatever goal they have for WLK heroics, they simply can’t make them worse than what they were in the original game. I’d love to see the challenge of WLK dungeons ramped up to the level of TBC dungeons.
How is that the point of “Lol please, if you’re happy about classic communication you really need to get out more.” ?
How do I find a guild to socialize with on discord if I get out more? I don’t see the connection. Did you find your guild by going to your local pub?
Oh dear lord, imagine thinking this is a thing for 5 mans in OG, nevermind in Classic where the servers are 5 times bigger.
I wish I could make you reread what you just said and really sit down and think about it.
Lol k.
Good lord.
I do believe it’s your claim that there’s such a thing as social consequences so why is the onus on me for saying it doesn’t exist?
An old GM of mine ninja looted a bunch of BoEs from Molten Core and he is, as far as I know, still playing the game.
So you’re ruining the game for players who wanted the original WotLK back without having a reason to do so beyond ruining dungeons cause you feel they’re too easy?
And you, without a hint of irony, without a shred of selfawareness, sit here and tell people to “go to retail”.
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Now we’re entering the topic of the mega-servers. Back in OG it was definitely like this.
Full quote:
It’s not impossible, but try to log in on retail and run a dungeon and see how sociable the average player is. Most players who queue up for dungeons do so for the purpose of gaining exp and not for the purpose of socialising.
This mindset of dungeon grinding for exp is a hallmark of retail, and the exact opposite was true in Classic vanilla. In Classic vanilla dungeons weren’t easy to get to and you had to assemble your team yourself. By the time you got to the dungeon in Classic you could’ve run the dungeon twice over in retail.
The reason you want RDF so badly is because you desire this mindless approach to dungeons. The reason I don’t want RDF and why I applaud Blizzard for attempting to keep dungeons relevant is because when I queue for a dungeon I’d rather have the time spent be meaningful rather than mindless.
Because I gave you scientific articles that talks about social consequences. I thought you read them. You made the counterstatement that there never were any social repercussions to bad behaviours. Where is your source on that?
Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. Because I have that power over the game. [Insert hint of irony]
Btw you never answered how you found your guild at your local pub.
It really wasn’t, but sure, pretend it was.
My boy, no one does a 5 man for socializing.
That’s the entire point.
They have something they want from the 5 man, be it badges, rep, achievements or gear.
Literally nothing has changed for heroic relevancy from RDF.
It’s run for badges now.
It was run for badges with RDF.
Absolutely not a singular change.
“Scientific article” that goes, and I quote:
While more players decreased wait times, the new system changed how players interacted within a group.
Yes, very scientific and not entirely feelscraft.
Sorry, this isn’t how science works.
It’s what you’re arguing for though, correct?
How on earth are you making drama outta me telling you “hi” followed 10 mins later by “ty for run” isn’t a good social interaction that you’ll remember 2 mins later?
That’s all it was. That’s why I’m ignoring your followups on it.
If you desire this kind of social interactions, just say “have a nice day” when you buy groceries.
It was you who said:
I would think the Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences has slightly more credibility on the topic than Jeynar the armchair general. But I am not at all surprised you disregard it. Anyways, there are more articles than just those two but you’ve proven like so many others in the RDF-crowd that it is pointless.
I don’t care whether you want RDF or not, I oppose your self-obsessed attitude of “things are the way I view them and nothing else can be true”. We approach the game differently. You deal with GDKP and boosts and what have you, I’ve always avoided that stuff. And in doing so I’ve managed to find likeminded people who have all began as complete strangers but who I’ve through repeated encounters befriended. I’ve greatly appreciated my time in Classic vanilla and Classic TBC because of the social environment that I deem missing in retail and other, more modern MMOs.
Is WLK different? No doubt. Does that mean WLK has to go down the same path WLK did in 2008? Blizzard doesn’t seem to think so. I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt – if only because there’s no real way they could make the expansion worse than it already was. Which is why I’m satisfied with WLK Classic whereas you’re here endlessly whining about the same feature for literal months.