Yikes… you do know that fear has been reduced by 2s years ago, right?
It’s the only spammeable CC that was nerfed from 8s to 6s…
Also, you do realize that having to actually cast those CCs and them being dispelleable is their downside?
Instant cast CC is so much out of hand in this game that I’d much rather trade my spammeable Fear for a 15s CD instant cast one in a heartbeat.
In my opinion most of the cc is fine and it has its downsides.
Poly - castable, brake by dmg, heals the target, purgeable;
Fear - if you mean warlock fear, its castable, breaks by dmg, purgeable;
Cyclone - castable, shorter duration, but a very strong one because it prevents the target from getting damaged and getting healed;
Sap- the target has to be out of combat, the rogue has to be in stealth, breaks by dmg, for this one i would make the range shorter as it was long time ago.
In my opinion the problem with rogue mage is their survivability and the infinite ways to reset a fight. Totally agree that RM can make multiple mistakes and live while the enemy team mistakes are punished with lost, but i think the main issue here is the survivability and the multiple ways to reset the fight not the CC. In my opinion classes which has tons of CC combined with high burst dmg should not have such a good survivability.
no you died because you dont know how to play the game. You dont understand it. Has nothing to do with poly or cyclone spam.
if its so scripted why are you dying in the first 20 seconds every game?
literally every class is viable to the absolute top right now even your DH.
True but we are on the Arena forums where people mostly talk about arena balancing.
I understand that some people find CCs annoying, myself I find the fact that hunters can root you and sometimes drop you to 40% before you are able to move. For me roots are something that you do to gain distance and when you take dmg in a root it breaks (personal opinion).
The issue with most posts about CC is that people don’t really see the beauty in it! The different kind of combinations you can do while understanding shared DRs and how to properly do setups can be a really fun sport too.
My question to you is - if we removed CC completly and 100% depended on damage, what would differ us from PvE?
As for you dying in the first 20 seconds of the game. Really - try to record your games and watch what happens. If you face rogue / mage, they run in and stun you + CC your healer and use every CD. Why do you not respond to that? What do you do in order to die? It can be really easy to live most things if you just keep in mind what you need to do.
Assa popping sepsis? You trade for it. You watch what they use, are you in a stun? BE READY! etc etc
I know how to play the game tyvm, I’m just not very good at PvP. Again, instead of explaining to me “how bad I am”, maybe explain the “why” so I could maybe learn and improve, or do you prefer to not get new PvP players because you prefer to gatekeep?
Because I have no counters. Tell me how a fury warrior in S2 is supposed to survive a stun lock from a rogue while having all defenses up and using the trinket to get out of CC? I’m talking about the lower of the lowest rankings, where I’d assume every opponent is as bad as me (which they obviously aren’t).
Fights are scripted in a way where if you don’t know how to counter it, there’s pretty much a set rotation of spells certain specs use for a free win, and you die before you can even realize what happens. You just log off and give up because even after 10 losses you have no idea what’s going on, and nothing in-game that you can do about this. If you have to watch/read guides to even begin PvP, then there’s the “why PvP is bad in WoW” reason for you.
I’m sure they are, but I don’t have PvP experience outside of ebgs, and I’m telling you that there’s a massive barrier of entry, even if you’ve played WoW for a long time.
It’s simply not appealing in its current state because there’s an issue countering setups.
It’s still related though.
I don’t think this is desired, I think there’s a huge disparity between the availability of CC between certain classes, and how others can deal with it.
This is something I’d expect once you start getting a bit higher up the rankings, not entry level arenas. This is a massive barrier of entry, because now in addition to having to learn PvP, you basically have to learn how to capture in-game footage.
That said, I can tell you exactly what happened. My arena partner got CC’d, I got sapped, my partner got polymorphed, I got stunned. Then there’s either me removing the CC with my trinket, pressing all defensives, and still die to a massive burst + CC (usually a blind), or I don’t pop my trinket and I die regardless. I’ve also tried pre-using defensives because it’s low level PvP and I know 100% sure that those rogues don’t care, they just kill me anyway.
This sums up my attempts to play Fury Warrior in S2 in 2v2. Should I have attempted arms? No, I don’t like arms. If I can’t play the spec I’m playing because it’s simply not suited, it’s just highlighting the problem.
I’m dead before I have figured out what sepsis is, there’s literally no in-game tools that hint at what happens, you’ll need to resort to addons.
The whole problem with arenas, especially on entry level, is that some classes, such as mages and rogues, need a counter that is beyond just pressing a button. They press a button, I need to know exactly what it is and what it does. That shouldn’t be a requirement in entry level arenas. On the other hand, my Fury warrior had no such spells that made the rogue require to know things about in order to counter me.
Getting back to sap, it has virtually no counter play for lots of specs/classes. Even if you know where the rogue is roughly, you can’t get them out of stealth because their sap range is bigger than your whirlwind for example.
You know all these things because you’ve PvPed a lot before, lots of others, including myself have not. My experience is: go into arena, get blasted out within seconds without being able to find out what happens. Either every spec should have this, or none.
The only long term solution is to rework how DR’s work.
Instead of 8 - > 4 → 2, it should be 8 → 2 → Immune.
OFC a lot of other things have to happen too. Degenerate ability design is the root cause of a lot of these problems, and the DR change is just a nuke if you don’t apply it with them.
Any abilities that are:
That btw applies also to priests so you don’t think I just select other classes. Void volley and fast MD are both degenerate things that should be gone.
thats what i said
you didnt ask a single question? What comb/spec are you playing and what are you struggling against and why? Ask specific questions and i will answer as best as possible.
trinket then stormbolt rogue if he uses trinket fear him if he doesnt trinket stormbolt disarm him after.
You can also trinket into fear him and when he trinkets you can stormbolt into disarm him and hit him for almost 10 seconds without taking any dmg.
wow pvp is scripted but also extremly complicated. The really scripted part of WoW actually begins at top ratings.
then you have to start thinking what made you die, find answers and tactics to prevent that from happen again.
WoW PvP isnt bad. Its the best MMO PvP by far out there. Its just not beginner friendly at all which is why its so much fun once you get used to it.
i know. never said anything different.
you are a complete beginner complaining about certain classes, spells and specs before even trying to learn the game.
If you are not willing to put in the effort to get better maybe pvp especially wow arena (where knowledge is key) isnt made for you.
UMM yeah but there is a huge difference between 40man vs 3 people. If 40 people try to CC you and attack you that can’t really be avoided.
It might be a barrier but who expects to go into arenas and be really good at once? If you are new to arenas there will always be people who are better than you and most likely few people who are worse. That’s why you lose a lot in the beginning - so have all of us. We learn from losing in most cases.
If you die when your partner is CCd - how many CDs do they throw at you? If they waste absolutely everything maybe your partner needs to help as well? Trinket + lining mage / disarming / stunning / ccing rogue + using a defensive usually works.
There is an icon showing up (debuff area) and I believe a sound + animation as well.
What do you mean no counterplay? If you are in combat there is NO WAY a rogue saps you. The entire idea behind rogues is to have the advantage from stealth - and I know it is annoying with rogues sapping you in EBGs and just stalling doing nothing - but that is due to annoying players in general.
Yes but how do you expect to learn? Do you ask your teammate what did go wrong? Do you reflect on the issues?
I am saying this out of care and I really do not want you to take offense. MOST people on the forums complaining will not have the issues they are having if they were willing to learn, YOU included.
WoW barrier to entry is very high thats true… and i am advocating for lowering the barier to entry, but the statement above is not very accurate in my opinion. You cant expect to become a chess master fast , before first reading books about different strategies , tactics, openers and so on… WoW pvp is complex and very unfriendly for new people which are unwilling to put effort in learning. External sources are just the easier way to learn. If you want you can learn by just recording your games and analyze them after, experiment try different stuff and find what works. The biggest issue in my opinion is as a new player you cannot understand whats working and whats not , because there is gear gaps , conduit gaps and different sources of power advantages and its hard for a beginner to understand is the problem a mistake on his side or a power disadvantage also the amount of information which you have to learn to process in short time is very overwhelming for a beginner (classes and their CDs, compositions and their synergies and win conditions, tracking CDs, interrupts/fake casting, positioning and etc.), but if you ask me its very fun the process of learning something new then execute it in practice and see how it pays off is one of the reasons for me WoW pvp is good and engaging .
I didn’t check you, I assumed you are someone who plays the game for quite a while, at least that was my impression after reading your comments. But since you are an actual noob, I am glad to help.
This is true, welcome to MMORPG. You are supposed to figure out a lot yourself. Back then we didn’t have anything that explains you anything. Some people actually like this.
I don’t remember you asking for help tho? It looked more like you tried to argue game mechanics which you don’t understand due to the lack of experience.
Don’t get me wrong, not knowing the mechanics is fine. But trying to argue like you do, is not.
So as DH (regardless if tank or not) if you are defending a flag, you have to go far, far away from it. Why? Exactly for this reason. If you stand next to the flag, a rogue will sap or kidney you and get the base/flag. So your only chance here will be to trinket and what happens then? You get a blind.
So how do you counter it? As already said, you stay far, far away from the flag. If the rogue saps you, he has to go all the way back to flag, which will allow you to stop him after sap without using your trinket since you have 2 jumps/dashes (depends on spec) + throw glaive.
The only other option the rogue has is to use smoke bomb and cap the flag. Which again is absolutely not an issue for you. Why? Again, mobility but this time you can’t use glaive so what do you do? As tank DH you got sigils, so you can use those into the bomb, CC or dmg does not even matter at this point, even tho I used CC. As dps DH you can dash in + meta in and you did it again.
If you try to argue the depth of mechanics and are not talking about rbgs but instead really about epic bgs, then sorry… you can’t carry 40 people solo. This is not how the game works nor how it is supposed to work. Meanwhile, especially here, you can counter pretty much every mechanic with just one more face on your side. So I wouldn’t know why you have issues here.
*PvP Noob 
Yes, but you are supposed to be given some tools to do so. Playing WoW without interface isn’t feasible either “just figure out yourself how long it takes to refill your energy bar”. The game itself should be able to give you tips or ideas on how to counter certain things. Don’t tell the player what to do, tell them how to use tools.
I didn’t ask to be called a noob or told to “git gud” either, yet that’s the first thing I’m being told one way or another. If you can tell someone to git gud or tell them they are bad without asking, then tips or advice can be on the same table. If no, then there’s no reason to tell someone they are bad or need to just git gud 
So this is directly the opposite of advice I’ve seen last season when I attempted RBGs. Our leader told the VDH to stand on the flag and keep the trinket available to interrupt the rogue. Standing on the flag would mean that the rogue would have no chance to complete the tap. Your tip makes sense, but it’s also the opposite of what someone else (who I thought had experience) said.
One of the issues I have personally is that rogues love to chain CC you. In Arenas that’s a 2v2 where either me or my partner gets CC’d until one person is dead. In (R/E)BGs that’s being sapped while trying to move to another point until I’m alone. They don’t have to kill me in that specific scenario, they just have to make sure 2 people babysit each other or pick off one target of they fail to group up.
In terms of tips and advice, this is probably not the right post for me to ask for it for battlegrounds. For arenas though, not on my DH (that’s just what I’m posting from atm), how would one deal with breaking CC so that it’s not a 2v1 because 1 person gets chain CC’d? I’m probably never going back into arenas with Fury Warrior, but I was considering giving it a try with SV for example, but I have no idea how to counter a rogue just waiting out sap spam, because 10 seconds is all they need to 2v1 your partner in a stunlock.
your partner trinkets + uses cds and cc to survive these 10 seconds.
Well having a UI and telling a player how to play are two different things, which is why we have a UI in the first place and even more than that, you can adjust it as you wish.
The way people play and execute their own tactics is literally what defines player skill. Even tho the (arena) matches a very scripted, it doesn’t mean the same tactic works for everyone, while the enemy team can make a mistake, your entire gameplay might change on the fly.
Also setting up the UI correctly can be considered part of player skill as well and from my own experience most people at lower ratings don’t have an UI that fits their playstyle or might even be not efficient at all.
This is tied to your statements. You can’t expect no reaction on your actions.
Well then your leader had obviously no xp. It’s not really surprising.
Well this is wrong. I figured that out myself and told you how I did it and it worked.
So the enemy team needed at least 2 people to counter me, this is where everything got tricky but that’s another story.
Yes, Rogues are strong but they are not unbeatable, at least not at lower ratings (<2,1k). I was on both sides, I played Rogue and I played other classes. I am rdruid main and I know the pain when your dps mate randomly pops stuff and then complains about gear/balance/lags/whatever… it’s nothing new to me. But 99/100 the fails are simply caused by lack of knowledge. (and/or poor execution)
Yes, that’s their job and this can be countered by DHs and Hunters. When more games are played people gain experience, like where the Rogues usually go, where to throw a trap, a flare, when to pop sight etc… It’s all part of the player skill and experience.
As SV you can still control your pet (means also moving out of ring for example) and sac your mate. Also, it depends on what class your mate plays but usually pretty much everyone can live a go and to prevent re-sapping you can simply position yourself properly. Remember that you are playing on low ratings, people make mistakes, a lot of them. Most of us don’t play on R1 level, those people are the ones who can say X and Y is unbalanced.
???
woke up and chose delusion
Are we talkin about fear, the spell that can be trinketed by classes, have even reduced time with right conduits or get totally immune to it?
on top of it for a class that usually tries to apply constant pressure/rot?
this is a joke right?
u want fear to have a 4 second duration?
How can you compare Sap to castable cc? Just how? How can you complain about it?
Often you get only 1 sap per game due to the above points and that’s on the opener.
Putting SAP in the same basket as castable/spamable cc is like adding a potato to a basket of oranges and acting like it’s an orange.
High ranked rogues are good at cc’ing with help of smoke etc. To get that extra sec for the healer or whatever to drop combat but at lower ranks you barely see it, if ever at all… in 3s it’s even more difficult.
This topic was automatically closed 30 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.