Yes. Cool. But where is it? Why is Ion talking about Raids and Raids alone? What about M+?
I am confused Ishayo.
First I am not talking about the 0.1%. I am talking about the 10% (more or less).
And second. If you dont care that much about the âtopâ people, then why are you so into deleting addons? The whole POINT of deleting addons is to stop people in Mythic Raids (specifically) cheesing bosses with WAs.
And third: If you dont care about the top 0.1%. Why go through all this process, ruining the UI for a chunk of the playerbase. Why not simply⌠do bosses as if addons did not exist. Screw the 0.1%, and if they want to cheat using a WA so what?
I mean⌠you can ânot careâ about 0.1% in may ways you know?
The problem with damage and healers, in particulat combo-wombos starts at a +12. Its not the 0.1%. More like⌠~ 20% of people.
The fact that the wombo combos come at such a low level is of course because both healing and enemy damage are too high. Player damage is relative to a different parameter (enemy HP) so letâs ignore that for now.
This causes yo-yoâing, and when this yo-yoâing gets just a liiiittle too far, it turns into combos.
Now, since theyâre openly talking about this being a problem and how theyâre going to fix it, Iâm going to give them a pass on this one until I get evidence otherwise. Obviously the current situation isnât good and Iâve never suggested otherwise.
Second, I donât want âaddons deletedâ or whatever, I want Blizzard to stop making classes that require them, and I want the unfair advantage some of them give stripped away, because it encourages a very uninteresting playstyle that nobody but the nerdiest of WoW nerds can follow, and what I like to call âgame senseâ, which is a really fun skill to learn, is stripped away. Makes the game awful to watch and play, especially in PvP.
Third, I never said I âdonât care about the high endâ, what I said is that there naturally comes a point where, if you just programmatically scale everything up with no intention, the numbers are so outrageous the game just ceases to be possible to play.
If you donât want that situation to occur, donât add infinite difficulties. Those are your two options. There are no other options.
And what this means is I donât care if someone can come along and say âyes but actually the game breaks down at level 27 because this DoT ticks for more than any healer can theoretically output as determined by SimCraft, so itâs not doableâ â So what. So what? Seriously, I just donât care.
The level 12 wombo-combos I do care about. The fundamental problem here is you keep insisting that because this happens at +12 therefore it is inevitable and therefore it canât be fixed - and while thatâs theoretically true because it can show back up at level 24, thatâs what I donât care about. Fix it so it happens way later and I consider it fixed.
Please be open minded. Because you are too taliban in your PoV and wont even consider understanding other PoVs.
That is not what I mean. I never even considered the levels (+23 or so) where you get 1-shot through defensives with a single mechanic.
That is not what I am refering to.
In an ideal world. Where there are zero mechanics. All the incoming damage is simply rot damage, YES. You would be correct. At a certain keylevel you simply die.
However. That is not the case.
Combo wombos exist because Blizzard has implemented a variety of mechanics to tackle. AoE, kicks, ST nukes, swirlies, ect⌠With the intention of making you, the player, express your skill by countering them.
I am sure you have heard the stories of âboredâ healers in dungeons where âall the mechanics are done rightâ. Thatâs the point of dungeons.
So. Blizzard wants to put even MORE mechanics. To compensate for simpler rotations. That means⌠even MORE combo-wombos. By defenition.
And most importantly, do you know WHY people die to combo wombos?
Here is the #1 reason:
Player 1 at 20%. Player 2 at 20%. 2 casters. 1 of them is targeting Player 1. People kick the other mob, or dont kick at all.
So its CRITICAL to know who is targeting who and where. And the only possible way to avoid this combo-wombo is to simply eliminate casters.
Which begs the question: Isent Blizzardâs intentions to add MORE mechanics, and not LESS mechanics?
Do you see where I am going now?
That is such a DD centric PoV and I am kinda tired of repeating that DDs are not healers.
You played in DF right? Do you remember Everbloom? The mage boss and the last boss?
The last boss is a ânormalâ boss that simply does a lot of damage. Its challanging. OK.
The mage boss however⌠was horrible. It was pure RNG if you lived or died. Remember?
The REASON that boss was hated so much is because there was no way of predicting who will get the bad luck. You cant pop a defensive. You cant do emergency triage. Nothing. Just watch him die.
THAT is super frustrating for a healer. Depending on RNG weather someone lives or dies. No counter-play possible.
Removing addons makes EVERY boss and trash pack into one of those. Itâs simply not fun to play things that depend on RNG.
I am open minded but I find myself being thrown things that are severely illogical, and Iâm not going to be insulted into pretending otherwise.
Agree with everything (or itâs a clarification that isnât a debating point) down to here. This is actually the opposite of the truth.
Adding more mechanics does not mean you have to increase the potential or average damage taken, which then means you have the same damage over more casts, which means each cost does less, which means the chance of them to all line up is decreased - you might need 3 to line up instead of 2 for example, meaning the problem is actually slightly mitigated, not worsened, even if the amount of casters are increased by 50% (which I think wonât happen - weâll have less micro-CCâs so I donât think theyâll tune this up)
Add to that on top that theyâre planning to increase the health pools relative to damage taken and healing dealt, and now weâre talking about perhaps 5 casts accidentally hitting the same person at the same time, up from 2, to produce the wombo-combo in the new expansion on the same difficulty.
So letâs say we do have exactly 2 mobs and they are going to wombo-combo with 2 casts. Thatâs a 5/(5²) chance, or a 20% chance. Thatâs an annoyingly high chance and this is going to happen all the time. But with 5? 0.16% chance. It will happen a few times per season really.
Or, to use your low health example, a player would need to be at 25% or so in order to be in the danger zone. Now itâs around 40%, often higher.
And you want me to believe theyâre making it worse.
It just doesnât make any sense. Iâm sorry you think Iâm closed-minded for thinking this, but no matter how many times I try to re-run the logic I cannot follow it.
Maybe we can exploit the new nameplates?
Instead of looking at the recipient of the cast, you look at the enemy thatâs casting it to determine who needs the heal - their name is on the nameplate.
You could try /assist? Or [@targettarget]? So target the mob thatâs doing the bad cast and then, instead of click casting, throw a quick heal on [@targettarget]
Itâs harder, Iâll grant. You may need to use some special tricks, you may need to watch the direction a mob is facing, and so on. But you lost a lot rotational busiwork and the situation is less likely.
Pretty standard fare. Thatâs what I do in every RPG Iâve ever played. Fight your way through the people protecting them and try to take them down or enjoy being fireballed.
I honestly donât know what their intention is for boss mechanics. Weâll see. But what we do know is they donât intend to make the game easier overall.
Here is my take on all this. Just to conclude this:
Blizzard is adding all these functionalities so people can âcheatâ and have an âunfair advantageâ as you say. Blessed by blizzard themselves.
All this you want wont happen. ALL the functionalities we have today are being included in the base UI:
So basically. Itâs not a debate if seeing WHO is being targeted by mechanics is âcheatingâ or not (aka, combo-wombos). Because the new nameplates from blizzard actually shows you WHO is being targeted. It writes down the name next to the cast bar. And you can put sound warnings tooâŚ
HOWEVER. They forgot to add all that in the Party Frames. Which is the bread and butter of healer gameplay. And THAT is my main point here. They forgot the healers. Focused only on DDs.
They are doing all this addon purge just to prevent some RTWF raiders from doing fancy WA for some SPECIFIC mythic raid bosses. ONLY. Everything else, will be included in the base UI. EXCEPT, a lower quality and with less customization options.
Just like the Blizzard DBM. It works on raids, with the sounds included. The sounds that say âDODGEâ and âMOVEâ. HOWEVER: It dosent work in M+. And you cant customize anything. You cant say âI only want sound warnings on X mechanicâ. It gives you sound mechanics for EVERYTHING. Itâs literally the same thing people use to âcheatâ today, but a WORSE version that is even more confusing even than todayâs version.
So. To cater to some 0.1% of RTWF raiders, they are kicking every other player in the nuts. Which is what you precisely dont want them to do. You should reconsider your PoV on all this addon situation. Because you will see it wont end well like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoScPqXhXr0
Watch this. The skill gap will widen. And all the examples he puts are ONLY Mythic Raiding. ONLY. Mark my words, because you will regret all this in S1 of Midnight. Remember my words. Next time you raid, you will NEED discord instead of a WA.
Remember. We are talking about healers specifically in this thread. Not DDs.
If people start dying randomly⌠Being a successful healer becomes a thing of RNG. That is not cool because it dosent mean I am skilled. It means I got lucky.
Imagine if I a DD. Where some keys you could do 20M overall, some do tank damage. And not because you are good/bad but because you had good/bad luck with procs. Not cool.
You know what they say; out with the old, in with the new.
Iâve seen plenty healers whine and threaten theyâll quit over this, on the forums, reddit, YouTube, etc & act as if no other healer(s) will step up. That is laughable.
Just as many healers has expressed great interest in this change, especially towards M+.
This will be interesting to behold, and life goes on if we loose a % of these veteran healers.
I want to say good riddance but Iâm not that petty.
I donât think you understand what UI means to healers.
Healers have to play the raid frame minigame, it is part of the role. It is extra homework we have and we have to adopt and actively search for the best tools to do it. We improve it over time, adapt it to every expansion, some do it even form season to season.
And now Blizz simply tells healers that this project theyâve been continuously working on for years, that allows them to play the game comfortably, is going to be disabled. And they have to start from scratch and try to replicate the way they used to play in Blizzâs inferior UI.
Itâs pretty understandable that instead of doing all that work again, many healers will simply quit.
Yes, already existing healers have expressed interest, not DPS players who want to try healing.
Weâve had many discussion on this topic over many seasons and the result has always been that it is extremely difficult to motivate new players to heal high end content.
And more often, it is Tanks and Healers who are willing to swap to the other role than DPS are to the other two. Expecting a flood of new healers is what is laughable, it has literally never happened in the entire history of this game.
You overestimate your worth as a role, and underestimate the greed/impatience of players in a queue.
Itâs not the first time the game has, have, or will, experience healer and tank shortages.
Iâm a healer since tBC launch myself, whom switched to tank in DF S2. I did up to +24 keys as MW when we were beyond garbage, and couldnât take the absolutely r*tarded gameplay healers has deranged to. My current disc is 3k, with no intention to go beyond- the mount wasnât even worth it.
Iâm curious however about the changes but not sure myself if Iâd ever main a healer again.
Life goes on, we will be fine. New players will rise to the occasion if the carrot in front of them is juicy enough.
If people were actively swapping to a role with the shortest queue times / lowest requirements, there would never be a tank/healer shortage, yet there always is. Arguably, there has been this shortage since the launch of the game.
People are more willing sit in a 2 hour long queue for Solo Shuffle as a DPS than they are to swap to a Healer for nonstop instant matches.
People donât care about their time, they care about their experience. And tanking/healing is not the experience they want to have. Seemingly no matter what.
Btw, you fit my description, you are a Healer/Tank not a DPS.
DDs get ALL the information we lost. Everything that was nuked in their own brand new nameplates. Including sound alerts. And most importantly, with the targeted spells WA that is supposed to âplay for youâ. EVERYTHING.
And we are left in the dust with a Vanilla WotlK party frame and some barely workable click on frames macrosâŚ
Its disgusting to be honest. And insulting by blizzard to leave us in this state with out even a mention, or even a small demo of âthings to comeâ. NothingâŚ
Screw the DDs and their stupid problems. Fix ours first. Because with out us, there is no M+, Raid or PvP.
Agree.
I healed in raids and dungeons since vanilla. For 20 years we used healing addons and designed them for our needs.
As a healer you need to keep track of everyones HP, their debuffs, their CDâs, AND interupt mobs AND follow mechanics. We can do all that becouse we have designed addons that helps us.
Everyone is whining becouse there is to few healers, and for us that do heal, we have to deal with so much crap and trashtalk becuse that player stayed in unhealable crap or didnât bother to use his/her CDâs. That wont inspire ppl to take up healing.
And now you are taking away the healing for us that have endured all the crap and choosed to heal anyway. Im out and i know many many old healers are to.
So who is gone be your new healers in midnight?
Addons is an option. If all these ppl you are refering to will be new healers in midnight, why havent they healed before? If they are so happy to heal without addons, where are they?
Noone is forcing anyone to use addons. But Blizzard have had 20 years to fix this. Instead they took advantage of all the addon creators to enhance their game and make it playable.
Image have rejuvination hide between all the others debuff withouth a way to highligh it. Image have a visual impairment and you have to check all the icons during fight because you canât choose the rejuvination position withouth an healing add on. Image that you donât see much and you canât understand easy when an hot (mostly rejuvination) is about to expire (vuhdoo and cell flash hots band debuff that are going to expire). With Cell, I donât have any kind of bug if I want to use a spell mouseover for heal, and, on same button, have an attack if I am not a friendly unit. Image, that you have to put all the macro on the action bar, and you canâât have more free space on them because you canât put them on an add on. I awas loving Elvui option (and another add on do the same) that show my action bar only durinmg mouseover. My screen was so clean. Withouth healing add on, my screen will be full cluttered and not so accessibile for people with an eyes disability. This sounds so bad. Plus, I tried to submit to a beta, for give more accessibility feedback, because I wont pay for being a tester. I am not even sure that I will be able to play the game in the future, withouth add ons that help people with a disability like mine. Sorry for my bad english <3
