See my thread I linked just above for my thoughts on the debuff situation. It’s so much worse than VuhDo or filtering woes. It should never have been like this and it needs urgent attention. And if it gets it, you won’t need your filtering and Blizzard can make the icons bigger.
And obviously removing then all is a non-starter. They need to filter the noise so the things that are shown matter and and mean something - so we can and must parse it.
Unfortunately the thread died instantly. Oh well.
I read your thread. And here is the thing:
For a dispel to be “meaningful” it needs to truck. I dont know if you remember iconic dispel bosses. Such as ToC in DF…
Just think about it. What does “meaningful” actually mean? It means: Do something or you die. 100% of the time.
And in M+, an infinitely scalable system that implies we are back to the 1-shot mechanics. Except that this time, we dont have the healer CDs to deal with it. So it basically becomes a worse situation than today.
There is only ONE way to tacle that issue. And that is “death by 1000 cuts” situations. Where you have 1M small things to deal with. None of which individually are meaningful. But if you get distracted, all 1000 of them will kill people.
If it makes sense.
But then the healer UI has to be able to display those 1000 small things in a way that allows you to manage all that in a skillful way. If that is not the case, then 100% guaranteed you will get distracted and 100% guaranteed people will start to die.
And FYI: Same thing applies to all other mechanics. Like bolts. Like swirlies and stuff.
I’ve thought about it and concluded that there have been plenty of buffs in my WoW career, if you will, that were threatening or annoying, but didn’t kill outright unless ignored, but don’t kill outright. Debuffs that decreased my healing taken, debuffs that slowed me down and would cause death by the next mechanic, debuffs that otherwise crowd control me, etc.
How about a debuff that slows followed by a voidzone. Normally easy to deal with, but you need to be pre-emptively moving when it lands if you have the debuff. If you do, no problem. You can also use a movement CD to prevent the death.
They don’t all need to be a whack in the face - especially not if the healer struggles to keep up when we don’t deal with it.
What I mean is that there shouldn’t be debuffs like Excess Fire where Blizzard literally goes out and says “yeah you shouldn’t worry about Excess Fire it should just do its thing” - then don’t show it?
Or buffs that are just “Hey, it’s Burning Crusade timewalking week!”
That’s not a buff.
Or just a rogue using an elaborate set of cooldowns in seqeuence to apply 10 debuffs all by himself. There just comes a point where we’re wasting debuff slots.
Movement CDs nerfed. Defensive CDs nerfed. That’s the thing with the new talent rework.
If you want mechanics that need “pre-emtive” action, you need a DBM that works on trash packs, and Targeted Spells WA that tells you if you will be hit by that or not. Which wont exist come Midnight.
M+ is infinitely scalable. At one point healers simply cant heal fast enough and you will die to the next “fire bolt” that is cast on you. No way to know that, because Targeted Spells WA will be gone.
They deliberately said. Less “rotation stuff”. More “mechanics”. Which means more swirlies. So this becomes RNG mechanic. If you get bad swirly distribution you die anywais. If you dont you live.
It’s complicated Ishayo. It’s not that simple to do mechanics like those.
Plus. What does the healer have to do in any of this? Healers need to get punished for bad play. That punishment needs to be in the form of less HP to the player. Not outright 1-shots. That’s too much.
If “failing to dispel” means 1-shot, OR, I depend on YOU (the DD) to do something about the dispel. It kinda removes agency from the Healing roll. Plus, it defeats the purpose of all these changes. Which is supposed to remove 1-shot play from the game.
That is why dispels do damage. Its a healer mechanic. Not a DD mechanic.
Yeah! Means we can have a reasonable amount of mechanics without overwhelming the player but nevertheless demand you use what you do have.
Nahh. Take Floodgates. It turns out that the sawblade doesn’t hurt you if you’re moving when it spawns, so what I do is I watch for the cast bar on the shredders and save an FoF proc for when they’re about to finish and move just as it finishes. I take no damage and didn’t need DBM. Sometimes I wasn’t the target anyway, but that’s OK.
Honestly I’m just done with that argument. OK so you literally can’t progress level 24 or whatever? That’s awesome. 
Ehh, they can do swirlies, they can do something else.
I know, I demand creativity. It’ll probably come back to haunt me. :'D
May my money be used for good.
Help the player who can’t move enough get rid of it by giving him freedom or a defensive, throw a single target CC on the mob that’s about to line something up, give a pre-emptive shield, bigger health pools btw, spirit link totem, idk.
Yeah, i agree.
But my point is, why dont they fix this first (and many other design flaws that addons were covering) AND then remove addons? Why are we the players being their reluctant beta testers? It will probably take them the entirety of midnight (if not even more) to notice and then fix these problems. I dont want to work for blizzard for free during these years.
This is a perpetual task that never ends. One that’s been outsourced to addon devs for the last 20 years. The same way addons break with new patches, blizzard’s UI will do the same, but with the increased customization and complexity it becomes even more expensive for them to maintain it, leaving little room for adding new features and fixing stuff.
This isn’t unexpected, it’s the main reason blizz didn’t want to take this step.
Because what’s going to happen is that all the people who relied on addons are going to continue to do so, half of them are going to get used to the game being unreasonably easy and complain when their addons are taken away anyway, and the other half is going to complain that the game is too easy and ask for it to be change back into the same mess that Dragonflight and The War Within is.
Better to just fix it all in one go. Rip of the bandaid just as it healed.
But it didnt healed.
We have been using addons for years, some for decades, we cant get more used than we already are. But if at the moment of removing them blizzard had already time to prepare and correctly test their new vanilla UI features, the blow wont feel as big.
Sorry not happening. If people who doesnt use addons think they will all be able to easily do mythic raiding or high pvp rating now, they are in for a harsh realization.
I am so much going to play dps in midnight. It will be terrible frustrating to play healer, and they gutted resto shaman anyway.
Presuming you have not played the beta, you do not know this.
It will be the same. No matter when this happens it’ll all be “you’re just making the game harder wahh wahh wahh”. They’ll have invented their own new silly solutions to make all combat outrageously easy by that point, so by comparison it’ll be harder and the same complaint will come.
The genius is making sure both happen at the same time. That way the game didn’t become easier or harder but the addon race was stopped anyway.
That isn’t what I said.
There is a lot of this sentiment across all the threads. Lots of people believe that high rated players are being carried by addons and that banning them will create a more even playing field.
While this might be true in the case of some mythic raid bosses, addons do not solve any mechanics for you in M+ and PvP, they can only provide better clarity of information.
And people who tinker with addons - select what buffs, debuffs and casts they want to see highlighted - have a deeper understanding of the game.
So if you put a high rated player with custom UI against a mid-tier player with the default UI in an addonless environment, the high rated player would still win.
My prediction is that it’s gonna be the casuals who download lists of “mandatory” addons but don’t tinker with them who will be hit the hardest.
If you understand the game well, you can reach very high rating in M+ and PvP without any major addons even right now anyway.
Such a simplistic view, but the conclusion is mostly correct.
But changing this was never the point. The point is to get your nose out of the UI panels and put it back behind them where it belongs, and to get you to stop always relying on addons and start relying on one another, and to just give an experience out of the box that’s playable and doesn’t major disadvantage you.
Like the idea of Blizzard. Stop playing healer, go play dps. As a healer you always will be in your UI panels. And with less clear information healers will even be more in there.
Absolute nonsense. One way or another UI will always be important. If you dont want to constantly be checking your cds and resources, you might have to consider to move to a different genre of game.
Eh.
I don’t have to check them when playing holy priest, I know when they’re ready without having to check.
I mean this is a nice dream to have but it’s not happening unless they turn WoW into call of duty.
As a healer displaying CDs, resources and party frames efficiently helps me see them out of the corner of my eye so I can focus on the fight (and see what my character is standing in).
But blizz would have to improve the default UI a LOT so it can replace addons.
Back in the day (before highly customized UIs were a thing) healers would be dying left and right because they’d tunnel vision on healthbars. It was widely accepted as normal, but it was a crappy feeling for us.
Maybe you are a genius that can mentally keep track of ~10 important cds at the same time. But chances are that you are playing low level pve content where you can get away with being unoptimal with your cds.
List 10 important CDs that holy priest have.
The CDs are in my muscle memory from playing holy priest so much.
Yeah, that “one way or another” casts a net that’s beyond wide though.
But sure, have it your way.
https://imgur.com/HrwDQD6
I know the feeling. When I played StarCraft 2 I could have 6 buildings producing and always knew when the unit was ready to within 2 seconds.
That’s not a reason to get rid of the bar though, of course, but this is definitely a thing.