Hello guys i’ve benn playing Warrior (fury) since WOTLK , and i want a change in that i suppose, i tried range dps but i couldn’t find any satisfaction, i tried also DK and i find it interesting especially unholy. I love fury cuz i feel the power and the force on every ability, ( its a bit hard for me to join M+ i dont know if it is the class that im playing or Raider io stats but ye… ) also this is my first post.
If you want to try something new out. Go for it! I know BM hunter or Fire Mage is often popular amongst Fury Warriors.
The reason you are not getting invited to M+ this ‘late’ in the season is because of your rio score is low and your ilvl is low. You are competing for a spot against people with three or four times your value.
Try to up your own key till you are around 3k score and 480 ilvl, before then, you are going to have a bad time trying to find a PuG spot.
I wish you the very best, Dara. Be it on warrior or something else!
thank you man <3
Warriors in general have a hard time getting invited, because the utility you provide is very situational and niche for a 5 man group (spell reflect, battle shout). Also, warriors basically require an enhancement shaman in group to perform decent.
My advice would be to try tanking as prot for M+, do your own keys like the kitten said, or try rogue/havoc/dk, because they are very similar to fury gameplay-wise and have real group value
what value has a dk and the havoc compare to fury, what do they give fury has 2 shouts for the team.
Havoc has 3 stuns, imprison (CC), sigil of misery (aoe disorient), darkness (aoe damage reduction/avoidance for group), consume magic (offensive dispel), chaos brand (5% magic damage debuff). And of course Havoc has passive aoe while dealing priority damage, a bit like sweeping strikes but better on larger packs.
Unholy has 2 stuns, Blinding Sleet (AOE interrupt), Death Grip, Anti-Magic Zone (20% damage reduction to magic for the group), Chains of Ice (70% slow). UH also has a incredible self sustain and cooldowns like Death’s Advance that can be used to counter certain mechanics.
M+ tends to be a game of “can you deal a lot of damage and stay alive” anyway. Warrior isn’t high priority because it’s behind other specs, in terms of Utility I think Warrior has a lot available, but it has to compromise dps to some extent to spec for it.
Havoc got their ST stun and their AoE stun. Not three? Surely you do not count Meta stun as one
So compared to Fury (removing the same things, like stuns, raidbuff):
DH bring Darkness (really strong), Fury bring Rally (in dire need of a 5man buff)
DH does bring more damage overall (damage profiles both excel on cleave and ST without loss)
DH brings consume magic and imprison ; Fury warrior bring spell reflect (when used to its max potential, it is fight breaking - absorbing and sending back tankbusters).
So DH does bring a bit more situational value that is easier to use in your average group. Still Fury warrior is not that far behind, if not equal/stronger, depending on the dungeon - key level and needs. Some times reflecting a tankbuster is 20% of the boss max HP, some times consume magic saves the day.
DK got two ST stuns, but no AoE stun. They got Blinding Sleet that works more or less as Shockwave as a stop. Grip is huge and AMS (shield - that immunes so many magic effects, it is really good. Better than Spell Reflect in many cases). Antimagic zone’s 20% absorb equals to Rally in value (10% max HP) - as AMZ is capped at around that same total value. I would say DA and charge/leap works similar in how it trivialises certain mechanics.
Warrior do a lot of damage and stays alive. DK does the same. DH same, but just better than the first two.
Now, warrior got its pros, but if you bring caster comp the brand value becomes stronger. DH also got CDs that benefit more from Aug than warrior - as warrior burst window compared is not even close on AoE. Fell-barrage goes burrr, Odyn’s Fury damage is a sad fart (that should be buffed by 51% baseline to at least have some ompf behind it). If tierset was only 50% OF damage, we would skip it for Onslaught. Now that is sad.
the best utility of dks i cant read anywhere is CR. Its stronger then the whole utility of a warrior
Surely I don’t count the stun as a stun? It’s not a reliable/regular stun, but can be used exactly like that, and does get used like that occasionally at high end play, as in the meta stun can be taken into consideration for a pull strat.
Not enough of either to be desirable over other specs with the combined toolkit, which is the point. At high end play the toolkit of other specs really shines above too, where it doesn’t get used to it’s full effect in lower play.
But that doesn’t stop the meta from following that trend.
I love how all discussions in the warrior forum ends up more or less about the same topic. And always with the Funkykittie arguing against every other warriors.
A real one man army this Funkykittie, for better or for worse.
It is a popular topic to loop around to, so it being repeated makes sense. It is a very hot one as well, as people are invested into their warriors and just want the best experience it can give. When that it is felt denied, of course strings are pulled and water stirred.
Most people argue from a negative perspective and point of view.
I argue from a (comparably) positive side. As I honestly do not share this ‘total-doomerism’ people got over a spec that is high-mid at worst. People hate being anything but #1, the very best, the optimal option - so, I understand why this friction happens. I simply don’t shy away from pointing it out that we are fine. Sure outliers need to be brought to towards mid, from top or bottom of the datapoints - yet, we are actually really solid where we are at and in a healthy gameplay spot.
I don’t say we are perfect, the pen-ultimate. I say we are fine. That fine should be the goal for all specs. Not god-comp meta.
In 60% cases there is agreement on a baselevel. People just dislike when someone is not dooming. So when I state a thing, there is usually a lot of emotional and personal experiences unloaded. It doesn’t help that I shrug that away, in an attempt to reshift focus on the forum from ‘it is all bad and sad’ all the time. As while I can relate and understand, I don’t agree to put weight on such things in a game-balance setting. Not at the level currently things are at.
I simply don’t agree to statements like “Warrior can not take shockwave!”, “warrior need Heroism, all of the paladin-kit and CR”, nor “Warrior have no utility” or “CR is worth more than the whole of the warrior kit combined”. I honestly find them a bit dull if not stupid, though, as mentioned, I agree that warrior own kit could need some tune-up and polish in QoL and functionality. Things like Rally getting a buff in 5 man content, or Inti shout being uncapped. Those kind of things.
I do my keys, I get into groups and everything is seemingly fine from my point of view. So this disconnect from others hyperfocus always crash when I point things out like: ‘There are warriors in the top 100, that shows we are able to push top-end.’ Or the worst offender, when I mention, ‘if you want to push keys, tools like networking is more impactful to succeed. Relying on getting invited to PuG keys is not it, if you want to avoid long wait times.’
Then it is usually countered by “I dont feel this”, or “there are no warriors doing top content, at all, you lie!” As they only really want to complain. Not all, some argue good points. But most repeat the same thoughtless statements. Usually combined with some personal attacks of some kind.
So, I hope, that the casual forum reader (like the OP of this post itself) sees my post and get some perspective. That things are not actually that bad as the echo-chamber is trying to make it out to be. If only one person reads this, then thinks, 'Oh, so I can have fun on warrior and be viable for my content! Nice!" Then I have won.
The backlash though, well…
It is what it is.
it has been the same since DF season 1.
though i have to admit i am impressed by the amount of effort he puts into his replys. i really mean it. he always writes so many words, that often i dont even know where he finds the time and motivatiom to do so.
Not sure any people read such long text Kitti
I have yet to try it but enhancement shaman was said to be very similar to fury warrior with a very activate rotation.
Theme-wise, I prefer warrior.
Truth is that warriors are utterly useless. I main one so I know that. I still love playing it (mostly as a dps), but objectively speaking that class is just dead. This is why I never got invited to M+ groups. But I don´t blame them, when I create a groups with my alts, I never invite warriors either, there is just no reason to do it. I recently started playing paladin (both protection and retribution) and I realized warriors can be removed from the game. With paladin you can deal with many affixes (incorporeal, afflicted), you can ignore some affixes (entangling), you can completely cheese some boss mechanics with BoF and BoP, you can bubble if needed, you can remove poisons/disease, you can heal others (lay on hands is a life saver), you have many interrupts including ranged ones, you have cheat death (as a prot), you have battle ress… When you play warrior, you can offer exactly nothing valuable. I still love playing it and I only pug my keys because that´s they only way you ever get a group, but still I feel terribly useless. Especially this week with incorporeal. I will definitelly main another class next season despite I like the warrior playstyle, it´s just that knowing I am useless and not wanted is not fun.
EDIT: for some reason I cannot post from my retail characters but that should not matter.
Your truth that warrior ‘objectively speaking’ as a class is dead, when we are in the top 100 rankings in the world. Is just objectively speaking untrue.
I won’t lambast you too much - as you are clearly talking about your feelings and how you experience them. It is quite normal that we build our perception, good and bad, on what we ‘see’ ourselves. Just try your best to break the cage of doomerism you have waddled yourself into, as things are not as bad as you put them out to be.
If you were talking about any of the classes with actual 0 representation in the 25+ bracket, I would take it more seriously. You could argue we are dead on a 30+ level, but I got this sneaking suspicion you are far away from that point and wall.
Now, if you are at that point where you no longer get invited to keys, then that goes mostly true for anyone of any class and spec. At a certain point you will have to had invested time in networking to become known by the players at the top. You will reach ‘this wall’ when names becomes regular repeating occurrences. That is why networking on your way to this point is prep-work to be able to push on. Don’t be afraid to go back to lower keys that don’t grant score, to start that process if you have not done so this far.
So I implore you, change your viewpoint around and don’t blow your excuses out of proportion. I am not saying you will not have a harder time than the top-end meta specs; what I am saying is that you are not locked out because you are a warrior. It is a contributing factor in the difficulty level to get into a group, not the sole reason.
Finally, you want what Paladin got. That much is crystal clear. You say as much. So, here is my best advice. Don’t try to make warrior become Paladin, go play paladin.
Be happy, don’t look back, nothing wrong with enjoying Paladin as your new main
warrior can deal with incorporeal. shattering throw is on a 3min cd. but it can remove one in corporeal being. next we have stormbolt, fear and pummel. so we can deal with this affixes. all though it take quite some more investment than a monk or dh for example
The only redeeming qualities of warrior is the theme of warriors especially Arms is that you are just Strong mortal unlike others who relays on other sources of power or masters.
Other than that just save yourself and play other classes.
I think Hunter and Rogue have similar feeling to Warrior maybe if you try them you would enjoy them.
Exactly it has 3 min CD while other classes have similar spells on like 30s CD or no CD at all. This CD makes it useless as you just need to depend on two other classes dealing with affix anyways and therefore you just spend the talent point elsewhere.
Ok when I sad “dead”, I was judging the class´ utility and contribution to achieving the goal i.e. timed run. I know warriors do run high keys. If you play with good team that provides the utility and make little mistakes and all that is needed and expected from warrior is an average damage, then yes, there is no reason why warriors could not run high keys but still it just feels a bit lame to know warriors are being carried in these runs. Like the 28 WM I was watching some time ago where warrior was relying on paladin´s BoP to survive thorns. Anyways you´re right, I am not running such high keys, 20 is my personal goal and that is definitelly doable with warrior, it´s just that I play with my friends which are casual players and thus we make mistakes. And when I play warrior and anyone does a mistake, we usually wipe. But when I play paladin, I can usually chill and manage on my own by being able to BOP, battle ress, lay on hands etc. Like yesterday when healer died 3 x on a boss and we were still able to finish the fight from 50 % to kill just with me being able to heal the whole group as a tank. So yeah, I got a bit tired of failing the runs just because I the class balance is so terrible in this game. Warrior is more fun to play, but in hands of a casual player in team of casual players running like 16-18s keys, paladin feels totally OP class which is on top of that so easy to play.