Cinematic thrall, a new face for enhancement?

I’ve seen a thread in us forums which highlights name: enhancement for the spec.
How it was changed for combat rogues and replenished the class with new striking rpg image rather plain game mechanic change.

I played enhancement since vanilla and every cinematic with thrall in it makes me feel like “that’s what enhancement shamans should be about”.

What i wanna say is:
Enhancement image of shamans is a little bit confused and undecided to say the least. It was luckluster glass cannon during vanilla and made to be a duel wielding dps slot with TBC.

I think that was when spirit of enhancement was confused for sake of having a melee class more in line with others. Duel wielding seems to me like more of a finnese thing. Where you get upper hand with good hand to hand coordination and calculated strikes backed with years of training. Just like how warriors and rogues should be.
Instead, shaman are backed with power of elements and spirits. With powers more primal and unfocused. That’s why i dont think duel wielding and parrying doesnt fit the shaman bill.

And what i think is while developers try to give something to enhancement they cant decide what it should look like. So they try to go from the “name”: Enhancement.

Since there isnt much depth to the spec (rpg wise) We get boring things like flametongue and frostbrand just for sake of having it ring a bell and make it seem like there is synergy between abilities. We get things very unsuited to the shaman image like feral lunge (if u think about it, its a gimmick, bandaid from druids).

Now, i’ve been playing enhancement for a loooong time and of course i have a clear image about how it should be. But for sake of lenght of this post i wont mention my “suggestions”. And i trust they can make it much better than i can even imagine if they want to.

What i came to feel like is, enhancement has become a patchwork spec with mixed ideas, gimmicks and is at a loss of image. I dont think even developers like the spec themselves. Dont get me wrong i still love it. Enhancement is the glass i see wow through and i enjoy it. But it’s a shadow of what it was and can be.

What do you guys think? Is it me who is totally out of touch?

6 Likes

I’m 100% with you.

I’m with you as well

Ok i have 2 people backing me up!
Things i will point out now will not be about class balance or damage and how strong enhancement should be. While reading, try to get the feeling of the play style. Since im not a good writer im counting on your imagination^^

I edited this a lot and it’s kind of hard to read… Sorry for that.

HOW IT WAS AND HOW IT IS:
People remember vanilla enhancement fondly… Or dreadfully. Depending on the side of the axe you’re standing. Enhancement was fun to play and absolutely annoying to play against for it’s unique quirks and mechanics.
I will try to highlight some of the abilities and stuations that made shamans, especially enhancement well rounded.

  1. Shocks! SHOCKS!
    Frost shock! This was, in my opinion the best thing about shamans during vanilla. If windfury is the butter. Shock, defenately are the bread. Earth shock was a 6 seconds cooldown RANGED interrupt. Which dealt substential damage. Frost shock was the ONLY ranged slow apart from mage’s frostbolt which has a cast time. I remember mages using low rank frostbolt casts just to slow me down. Shocks were unique across all classes becouse not many classes had instant good damage source with utility attached to it. And they were what really made shamans annoying to play against.
    Damage of it? 400-500 depending on your gear. Crits? 600-750 for enhancement. Now that’s a lot of damage. Regular mages for example had around 3500-4500hp. So shocks took more than %10 of their hp every 6 seconds if you choose to. Now that’s easy to deal, ranged and stable pvp damage with utility on top of it.

How did it “made” the image?
Even without windfury, substantial damage and utility of shocks made enhancement dangerous. That mofo walking towards you with a 2h wf weapon ready to blast out a wf attack chipping away your healtbar with shocks… That is a good image. It’s not to make shamans op, it the feeling keeps your enemies on their toes. Shocks had gooood damage. It was a good opener. And it was a good execution ability. You keep it off cd for utility. But when wf procs and you see juicy big numbers crunch up on your enemy, than you SHOCK! And end it. Animation of it was plain and fitting too. You just simply extend your hand towards enemy. You keep your 1 weapon with 1 hand. And you cast your primal magic with your other hand blasting a magical animation on your target. It’s just simple and good looking.

What do we have instead now?
Rockbiter, flametongue and frostbrand. How i wish they would just scrap this idea. They have existed since vanilla and i dont know why but they are the only things developers seems to keep in place. They have been the main problem of enhancement since TBC. Boring, unfitting and cluttering the whole spec. Destroying idea of burst damage itself. Which was enhancement’s deal.

How it looks?
Bad, really. You swing your weapon to the air. It simply doesnt look good. Becouse both of our hand are full. Does it buff me? Damage opponent? It does both… And does it both very poorly. Stands in way of our burst with it’s little damage. And stands in way of our utility with it’s constant requirement of reimplementation. These 3 abilities with their 1.5s gcd makes me feel like i have to keep my character from fallin off. When i want to use utilities i have to keep my damage on standby. And when u really think about it. Their duration is 16 seconds for flametongue and frostbrand. When u finished casting 3, duration on flametongue is already at 13 second. Even in hands of good players and lucky stuations, it’s mediocre and a bad feeling. Total hell during pvp with all the kiting, stuns, ccs and people bashing on your head with their first big attacks. You cast 3 of em pop feral spirit and ready to kickass. BAM stun. When u get out of it, you will have 5 seconds duration of flametongue. Lets recast them without dealing any damage whatsoever. No? Stormstrike? Well, you just gimped your already subpar damage. Every purge you cast. Every totem you drop. Every heal you throw feels like loosing time on those gcds you spent to buff your damage. It is a BAD FEELING.

  1. WINDFURY!

Well this is what made enhancement, enhancement. Everyone knows what it is. Everyone tasted its power firsthand and everyone loved or hated it.

It’s gamble what really made the enhancement. If you got it you killed, if you didnt you died. Honestly, there isnt much to say about it. I wont compare old windfury to current windfury. Becouse fundamentally they are opposite things. It was THE burst damage now its one of the things that keeps away from burst damage. Just how flametongue is, completely unneccesery. Developers just want it in place becouse enhancement = windfury.

Rather i will compare it to stormbringer since it’s what inpired stormbringer. If u get proc of stormbringer, you kill. If you dont you die. Its the same thing. Main difference is: You have to spend gcd to make it happen AND you have to get lucky more than once. What really crushing the feeling is, is a little more subtle. It’s connected to stormstrike. Now what it means? Stormstrike is a damage cooldown. When u get stormbringer a couple times in a row u get something similar to wf but a worse version of it ofc. If u want full benefit of it. You have to have frostbrand and flametongue in place. Lets say you used you stormstrike and now its on cooldown. Cooldown means during kites, stuns and runaways. You know you re bidding your time and when its off cd. You will smash your target. But since it’s cooldown can be reset if u re on your target, “not being on your target” punishes you much much more than it usually does.

Old windfury was passive and since your only damage source was stormstrike, shocks and windfury as main. You had lots of time to use your utility spells like wide selection of totems and PURGE (i will stress this later). Now becouse of
constant stormbringer flametongue and frostbrand, even casting a purge feels very punishing. Again, trying to do the lots of “little things” to do, seriously gimps the feeling of the spec. Even when u play perfectly AND get lucky, a stun or a kite will make your tediusly built house of cards crumble. It DOES FEEL BAD.

  1. Purge

Mages and hunters didnt have spell steal, it wasnt as good for priest to use dispell becouse it removed 1 magic effect. They didnt wanna spam it becouse they had to cast.

But man, for us it was the actual ripper! It removed 2 magic effects and costed nothing. If u were playing against enhancement shaman, you wont have buffs, you wont shields, you wont have hots. End of story. It added on danger of shocks and wf procs. If you shock it wont be wasted on shields or mitigated by hots. It was dangerous and made us feel in control against casters. Backed with frostshock and earthshock, purge made enhancement a destroyer against all casters.

Now even casting purge is a hassle. You sacrefice a lot for it. Most of times, it just doesnt worth it. Its good for only things like BOP. Giving dispel to literally half of all classes had to mean shields should be less impactful. Shields were a good cooldown for priests and mages. Dispelling them meant trouble. Now priests can cast a very weak version of it every 6 seconds. It’s not fun for them, its not fun for us. Warrior wasnt able to get fury while hitting a shield for example. What i mean is shield were trouble. And we were solution. Druid hots? Same thing. Doesnt worth dispelling now. They have 5 of it. Just recast your flametongue and hope for stormbringer if you dont get stunned.

  1. Maelstrom, resouce and cooldown management.

Maelstrom is a good idea for elemental shamans. You do your thing, and when you do enough you can spike your damage with earthshock. Instant cast, hard earned resource spending. Good feeling.

For enhancement? Is it a resource really? You cant just spend it with stormstrike couse it has a cooldown if you re not lucky. And if u re lucky it makes it free so u dont need it anyway. It’s just there to stop you from casting lava lash which doesnt do any damage without both “hot hand” proc and “primal primer” build up (i know its a little specific build but this is the best case senario).

Even when u have 100 maelstrom. You cant cast more than 2 lava lash in a row. And if u get 2-3 stormbringer in a row, u instantly get 100 maelstorm… Seriously, its not a resource to manage. Just gimps your damage slightly during times you
are unlucky and doesnt add anything when u re lucky. “Everything” depends on how much time you spend on your target.

How is it for other resources? I think energy is best. You spend your energy damaging your opponent. When you use utility spells like blind for rogues or like regrowth for feral druids or ANYTHING accually. During that window you regain enery. That means incoming damage. When you cc, kite or stun them. They will be coming at you ready to spend their 100 energy blasting you to bits.

Even rage in its current gimped state, adds to warriors. When they are stunned and recieving damage, their resource bar is building up. Danger is coming. Even during pve they can have a rotation and expectation. It’s not something enhancement could have with maelstrom.

Cooldown management… We dont have cooldowns on our offensive abilities apart from sundering(which is an awesome ability). Isnt that funny in a game like wow? We do have cd on stormstrike but whole system is built on removing that cooldown on chance so i dont think it counts. Basicly we can use whatever ability we like since they dont do any damage by themselves. What i said earlier, since spec doesnt have an ideal image. These gimmicky abilities need to make a pseudo synergy. Not using one of them gimps all the other. This is a tiring and unsatisfactory play style. Makes me resent during every stun i recieve.

  1. Carnaval on scrolling combat text:
    In “good old times”. When u deal your burst. You see 4-5 dmg text on screen. And they were BIG, SATISFACTORY, JUICY hits. When u crit, your slightly bigger crit text would not scroll but smash on your screen with a little jigle, and you would know just how much you screwed your opponent. Just like how warlock makes you feel with chaos bolt. Nowadays, thanks to duel wielding, flametongue and frostbrand (wont even comment on windfury right now). i see a constant stream of “415” dmg on my screen, doesnt even worth to look at how much damage i did. Just trying to keep my buffs up -_-

It really takes the feeling away from the player. Even our big hit “the stormstrike” is dealt with both hands and keeps us away from the feeling. Now you guys may say “its not about how big numbers you see, its about how fast your target drops.” But i disagree. This post isnt about class balance but the feeling i get from enhancement. Lava lash on the other hand is very good step. Absolutely amazing in pve. And i love to see 90-100k crits on mobs. But it also has its bad drawbacks during pvp which i will get to. Even with this amazing tool. Sometimes i just dont see it on the screen becouse of the stream of “415” dmg text.

Main reason of this stuation ofc is being a duel wielding spec which doesnt really add to shaman flavor. Having these gimpers on top of it, just makes it even worse.

  1. Enhancement in eyes of players and developers: Utility or damage spec?
    Whenever enhancement’s damage is discussed. People say “well its good for a support class”, “You can’t expect it to be as good as rogue”. And yes and we never expected, never got that. But now do we really have any utility? Nowhere in a competative side of the game.

If u want to heal in a dungeon or raid you have to sacrefice much more than a global cooldown by healing becouse of the reason i mentioned above. Cramped up global cooldowns, constant need of keeping your buffs up and not having a good resource management makes you squirm when u do anything but what you have to do to damage. Even fury warriors heal themselves with their bloodthirst. Demon hunters with passive lifesteal. EVEN the rogues bring much more UTILIY to dungeons as THE main damage class with cloak of shadows. They can soak things up. They can keep their own with evasion when they get agro.

We dont even bring a buff like we used to. Like DH and monks do now.

In this current state of the game. Enhancement is not an utility spec. Even our heal is laughable. What the spec needs is a decision. What enhancement should be? Becouse right now, it’s not a damage spec and certainly its not an utility spec. Absolutely no-one wants an enhancement shaman as their team mate neither in pve nor pvp. Reasons are obvious. Hard to play, very punishing and doesnt bring anything to table any other class cant bring.

  1. What can be done?
    I explained what bugs me. And i can see what enhancement can be. I’m not saying bring back wf and let us kill everyone. I’m not simply saying buff our damage or survivability. What i want is to make enhancement feel like playing a shaman in the world of warcraft.

It could be like thrall, thor or avatar aang. Enhancement could be calling lightning from above on top of our enemies like thrall and thor. Instead we’re dealing 415 damage with flametongue and frostbrand with our melee attacks. Lava lash could be an actual lash. Like balrog’s flaming whip animation or something. Instead, its an off-hand attack… This spec has an incredible rpg image potential and its being wasted. Make it unpredictable and scary again. Make it look cool with “Storm Earth and Fire”.

what it boils down to is: In the old days enhancement really was a support class. We had a bit of everything without focus and we managed to have fun with it. But spec itself failed to make an image through expensions. With philosophies like “class homogenization” we lost somethings and got somethings. All classes lived that but they kept their spec’s core meaning. Enhancement didnt have such thing so it has always recieved gimmicks.

This spec with immense potential didnt recieve it’s well expected overhaul through many expension. I know i’m asking for a lot but spec’s problem is to embedded. Requires a serious look from developers.

It has been a very long post. Thanks for reading. I really want to hear what you guys have to say.

3 Likes

Again, I agree 100% with you. Doomwinds was a cool ability from legion.

2 Likes

I like dw and wouldn’t want to see it go and I think it should stay the optimal way of enhance.

But for all the 2h lovers there should be an option to at least be viable with a 2h weapon.

Yea i’m sure most of people enjoy dw. It’s more likely that dw is here to stay.

And accually im not really fixated on 2h weapon neither. It’s even fine with 1 single, 1 handed weapon… With doomhammer, we kind of had that. Most iconic shaman weapon of most iconic shaman character.

With doomhammer, offhand was not an actual weapon but a magical extension of doomhammer (being an axe made me like it even more^^).

That’s kind of the thing with what i like about that image, i feel like enhancement’s offhand should be a focus for magical abilities. I can’t really see Thrall in my head, duel wielding.

Gameplay wise…
While saying it’s the main problem. I’m not saying it MUST go, but combined with the rest army of teeny tiny damage sources, it stands out more than it should.

Maybe if other problems would go away and we get a clear image of what enhancement should be like, DW wouldnt seem like a bad thing to me neither.

I heavily disliked the vanilla version of enhancement, and shammy in general tbh. It was all shocks and autoattacks which makes little to no sense. The only thing that did make sense, were totems.
The current iteration may not be perfect, but it fits the spec’s fantasy at least, which is attacking melee with every swing enhanced with elemental power. Stormstrike and Lava lash stand as the perfect examples of what an enhancement shammy should represent, otherwise there is no flavor.

I get the impression that your idea of enhancement is chasing people around like an idiot with a big @ss axe, or other 2hander, hope to reach them while shocking at a distance and get lucky on windfury procs when you do reach them, + stormstrike once every million years. Never heard anything more boring in my life, and frankly, i would delete the character without regret.

True, enhancement is about burst, but the vanilla iteration was just terrible, at best.

This is accually where we should start to discuss.

None of the classes’ play style can be compared to vanilla now. Every class was autoattack + 1 or 2 long cd and maybe a proc, except rogues for pve.
For pvp, No one had gap closer except warriors. Not one had escape except mages (not even hunters). But while slushing these abilities around classes, enhancement got the short stick imo.

So yea, i’m not saying remove everything and let us chase people to auto attack. All those explanations i made was to make relive the “danger” of enhancement. I know that “feeling” cant be made with same abilities but im sure current feeling is far away from it for everyone.

Since other games doesnt have a class as shaman we cant compare it to anything. I cant base my idea or image to anything. But since old developers left blizzard, what i came to feel like is new developers are in same position as me. They can’t make up their minds about “enhancement”.

Old enhancement even with the name “enhancement” might have been enough for vanilla. Both the game’s system and overall classes’ specialisation was enough for it. But now, when we spec into a class we get like 10 abilities.
What i think is when those abilities revolving around “enhancing your weapons” feels short after 15 years of wow.

What i hoped for this post was maybe we could share our opinions about a good melee shaman class. Maybe help developers to decide to ditch the “old developers’ enhancement idea” and make something they love themselves. Much like what they did with outlaw.

So now, I’m surely not saying i’m right or represent the community. I’m a mechanical engineer not a game developer. And i tried not to give suggestion about abilities to a degree but rather compared the feeling as best as i could. I might have got emotional and started to rant but it’s kind of an emotional matter for me since i’ve been playing enhancement for 15 years. For that sorry^^

But are you really satisfied with the enhancement role fantasy at the moment? Now i dont wanna compare it to other classes. Do you think enhancing our weapons for 400 damage every hit, feels good?

I honestly dont want you comfirm my thoughts. Just share your ideas about how it should be. Hopefully with a new spec name… Lets just discuss class fantasy. You dont have to get all technical if you dont want to.

Like… Instead of turning into a wolf, jumping at enemy… Turn into lightning, air or spirit and close the gap that way. This is a little overspecific i know. But it feels like placeholder animation from a privite server imo. Do you think it’s enough?

2 Likes

What they COULD do to bring back the feeling we once had is to:

  • Make new talent forcefull winds stack 3 times only but REFRESH the 15 sec duration when WF procs. Increasing the WF damage over the fight. And making WF more meaningfull than a Maelstrom RNG generator.

  • Flametongue and Frostbrand should be merged into “Enhancing Blow” one spell which applies both buffs. And root for 1 second (20sec internal gcd per target). Increase damage of the both buff and inpact by 100%.
    -Duration 15 seconds.
    -Cooldown 25 seconds.

  • Windfurry - Windfurry procs refresh the duration of elemental enhancements on you. FT/FB

  • Boulderfist applies stack of “Earthen Grip” to the target, reducing their damage done to you by 5% per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks 3 times.

  • Stormstrike - Stormstrikes shatter “Earthen Grip” from the target imbuing Shaman with “Earthliving Weapon” for 3 seconds per stack shattered.

  • Earthliving Weapon - Heals you for 3-5% max HP whenever you Stormstrike for the duration of the buff.

1 Like

This is what shamans should be https://youtu.be/YG35phnCKRc … I feel absolutely nothing shamanistic about thrall in the safe haven, hell sourfang looks more like a shaman with that totem he uses for rogue smacking …

I didnt see that video before your link. Watched it 6 times in a row. Blizzard’s art team is something else… Yea it’s stupid for me to think we could discuss what shamans should look like.

I dont understand, maybe blizzard has become so big of a company somewhere on the line this “soul” of the artwork and vision doesnt get down to gameplay. I guess it’s not just a “shaman” problem but philosophy of all classes across the board.

Still… expension after expension, that joke of a flametongue damage makes my blood boil. I can sadly accept this is what blizzard is content with enhancement shamans should look like. But gameplay must change.

At least we could discuss that^^

[Patrljak] !

Dude, things you suggest would be a cool start. They do adress some of the problems but they mainly are focused on freeing enhancement’s gcd problem.

In a video, one of developers said (forgot his name), “players’ every gcd must be used while dpsing. This is our cornerstone while making changes” or something that meant something like this.

So they wont do that without changing their position about how most of the things should be. People say again and again that they dont want to stand like a tool to auto attack (main whine point about vanilla i think). Bunch of non sense if u ask me^^

Maybe what they could do is just get rid of enhancing part of flametongue. Just make it a flame attack with short cd or something (like warrior’s slam) to fill the blank in our rotation. So we wouldnt feel like thrash when we spam stormstrike without it.

And about procs… Procs always should feel fun and rewarding. Like hot hands, it does feel rewarding with %100 more lava lash damage. And if u have traits for it, even better. (flametongue again, die flametongue die!) Rogue’s pistol shot, warrior’s sudden death. They all are fun, rewarding procs. But stormbringer is not. I dont know what could be done about it since whole class is built around it and even mastery stat works for it but… Yea… Wanted to mention. Distributes our uncontrollable burst even thinner and lets it more into hands of rng.

About boulderfist - earthliving thing? Good idea! Something like that is a must. Rogues heal more than enhancement in arenas. Talented crimson vial heals for %45 of max hp… I cant heal that much if i dont crit with all mana i have… Not mentioning all gcd useage and maelstrom spent. If enhancement isnt meant to heal some form of mitigation should be active at all times, since we spend most of our time keeping our buffs up anyway.

I honestly do like the current enhance design, for the most part, it’s flashy and satisfying with great numbers. What troubles me is the boring mechanical side, as in, no interaction between spells. Like, every spell does X damage and nothing else.
But then again, the same applies for most classes/specs these days.
Now sure, certain azerite traits make it interesting, be it Strength of Earth or Primal Primer, but honestly, those things should be baseline.

If PvE is only thing you will ever do. Enhance can be fun. But constant reaplying of FT/FB will bore you.
PvP is a BIG NO NO NO.
Prepare to get outdpsed by every other class often. And to be kicked for lack of any utility that everyone else got.

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