Hello,
with the nerfs for the class buffs going into Shadowlands and the changes to not include class buffs on scrolls, why they just return also mark of the wild for druids, aura paladin buffs and hunter attack power aura.
i just cant understand when they returned the class buffs on the start of bfa and not returned mark of the wild for examble
what are your thoughts?
I think the current approach is to try and stop the buffs feeling mandatory, hence removal from scrolls (as everyone can technically get them) and nerfing the buffs that are in game (PWF is being halved).
Regarding why some stuff wasn’t brought back, I guess it’s a combination of preserving the above (keeping stuff as perks rather than requirements) and also some stuff really can’t be added back.
I mean old MoTW was a great buff in vanilla, as vanilla had a lot of stats. In current there are only 2 primary stats for each class (str/agi/int and sta) so it would be essentially a “primary stat buff” which other classes cover to varying degrees (priests do stamina, mages do int and warriors do str/agi to a different degree)
If you make it increase secondaries instead, then it’s going to suffer from being way too good for some classes so as to make it feel mandatory in some cases. Buffinf someone’s int can make them “just a bit” better at what they already do. Buffing mastery can change stuff quite a bit, as can haste, so it would make druid buffs “required” for raids/groups for mix-maxers which is something blizzard want to move away from.
What I don’t get however is that why the buffs/debuffs in game are not more spread. Each class/spec should get “one” of them, so they always bring something, like was the case in Cata.
the buffs will continue to be mandatory, even on 5%, and you know that deep inside, lets just dont fool ourselves here…
just check when shadowlands season 1 starts the group finder, where the tryhards will try to copy every composition or class or covenants or whatever, the professional players are choosing
I pretty much never see groups running every buff outside of raids. I imagine nothing will change there except maybe buff classes losing importance in raids too.
Because Druid, Paladin and Hunter already have an incredible amount of group utility. They really don’t need any more help to make them be desired for something other than potentially unbalanced throughput.
Yeah man, because every top M+ group right now is a Warrior, Priest, Mage, DH and Monk, right? Oh wait, Monks and Priests are constantly complaining they’re undesirable and can’t get groups, and the same for DPS Warrior… Behave yourself.
I saw that there are a lot of temp buffs from professions. Like oils and stuff.
This party would not have a combat res. A thing that Druids have and is more valuable than a stat buff. Good thing Blizzard doesn’t just decide to bring back buffs for every class without consideration for the utility they already have huh?
False.
Priests alone offer the Stamina buff, yet i sincerely doubt they’re currently “top pick” for healer because of that alone. Things aren’t looking much better for their status in M+ SL as healer compared to golden-boy druids and ole’ reliable healerdins.
If buffs were “mandatory” every group would be a warrior tank, priest healer, mage dps, DH DPS and Monk DPS (swap Monk and War/DH around as needed) and yet this is not the case.
Hunters offer no such group utility whatsoever, and yet they’re waaaaaay more popular than WW Monks and probably still will be.
This won’t change because people can’t get the buffs with scrolls anymore. People will still bring whatever sims highest and people are not going to swap the godmode that is resto druid dungeon healing for a disc priest solely because they can’t grab a 7% stamina scroll anymore.
Exactly. It’s not like without these buffs all classes are identical in all aspects. The buffs are simply an extra tool to make certain classes more desirable from a group-utility aspect.
Without Battle Shout, if a Warrior isn’t pumping overtuned numbers there’s very little reason to want them. Without Fortitude, there’s no reason to want a Priest that isn’t overperforming in terms of throughput. Without Arcane Int, Mages would exist solely as soak-bots if their damage is lacking.
Classes need reasons to want to be included if pure-numbers don’t align. These buffs are, if not a fairly lazy way of executing it, exactly that.
Pretty funny how resto Dudus are incredibly overtuned in M+ in BFA … and it looks like they’re gonna be even better for 5 mans in Shadowlands 
I honestly doubt people would stop liking Fire Mages just because they lost Arcane Intellect…
To be fair Mages also provide food and have buff removal and a bloodlust, and having a proper bloodlust will be more important with the drums nerf.
What drums nerf?
I know right, I looked at all of the WoWhead analysis articles for healers (healer is usually my main role and I have all of the healer classes at max barring druid) and I couldn’t believe it.
based upon the fact that resto druids have literally dominated M+ in BFA since forever, joined briefly by holydins once glimmer took off and very briefly joined by monks (until the very quick nerf of the haste stacking playstyle with rising thunder), they receive MORE STUFF in shadowlands by way of utility in the form of cyclone, more baseline shifted abilities and stuff that makes regrowth much much better at spam triage.
And priests, holy in particular, whom struggle to get a look in at the best of times save occasional periods where disc does alright, get the ability to…cast mind sear and mind blast and SW:P as holy.
I mean are the devs even checking the healer rankings? Too much focus on DPS rankings, the healer rankings have been completely whacked in favour of druids for the entirety of BFA and this hasn’t changed even once, and the response to this is to give druids MORE unique features and utility that will be amazing for 5-mans and not even address some of Holy’s long-term issues with their healing, instead focus on giving them more DPS tools (which isn’t the issue, the issue is their DPS cannot be maintained whilst doing their healing rotation unlike other healers, being able to cast mind blast or mind sear doesn’t resolve this issue).
I mean, flash heal without the 3x az trait? It needed that trait to become freaking usable. It’s baseline healing is so so so weak and your “quick heals” are your bread and butter in high keys, yet I see nothing addressing this.
Nobody cares if Holy has amazeballs efficient ST heals or 3 kinds of aoe healing in mythic+ if they don’t have a usable quick heal to respond to spikes and stuff like Grievous when stacked when HW:Ser is on cd then they have zero chance of being competitive.
Druid utility? Yes for dungeons, not so much for raids. Feral was the spec that was always left behind, since their utility can be brought in some form by the other specs.
Paladin utility? Because their utilities consist of immunities they end up either being borderline broken (to cheese mechanics) or borderline useless. Paladins overall do not suffer from this, only their single DPS spec, Retribution does.
Hunter utility? Most of those are packed on BM, as MM hunters will generally not use pets, so their pet based utility goes out the window. Survival doesn’t bring anything to the table BM cannot do, so they are in a tricky situation right now.
The classes themselves do not need extra utility, but they are also not too desired when their utility isn’t useful in a raid enviroment. Even then having one of each is generally enough (or in case of having Death Knights or Warlocks druids aren’t strictly needed.) It is always specs that end up getting the short end of the stick.
As a note to your other post: Warriors will still be desired (to the point of having one) simply because Rallying Cry is a good raidwide cooldown to have. Priests have Mass Dispel, which is just like paladin utilities is situational, but it is pretty strong in its niche. Mages can bring crowd control to fights which requires it, and they also carry Bloodlust/Heroism.
Drums in shadowlands received a hefty nerf. They only provide 15% haste now, down from 25%.
Sorry what? Are we playing the same game here?
I wouldn’t say it’s incredible but they do have a fair bit when looking at some specs (not looking at healer specs):
Versus say Priest:
Granted the priest ones are far from useless (purge alone is strong, as is MD) but paladins do have a lot of baseline frills (not as much as druids mind), and even if some stuff is “weaker” (like their taunt, or off-heal, or blessings) fact remains it is utility they bring that can have a use and they have a few unique utilities that are pretty powerful.
However they are not powerful enough to make them broken as we see in the case of Ret and Prot not being picked all the time for them alone.
Still, nobody wants Ret, and Prot is sought after just for raid fights with lots of interrupts or tank mechanics that can be cheesed or M+ on Necrotic weeks though. All that other stuff you get from Holy. So really might be better to look at healer specs.
This is not a thing.
I’m not going to confute every single point, but of all those utilities, except the stun, every other utility is a reaction to a screwup, except specific cases where there is actually a planned use for it, like loh for the last boss of temple, while other classes have utilites with much more usage than this or group utilities.
they are not powerful at all unless you’re planning to cheese something with it, and they are combined with mediocre damage.
if we have to be the utility slaves of the group, at least give us stuff that are really powerful, like a big group defensive or big group heal, for all the spec.
How is it not a thing?
Does Avenger’s Shield silence multiple mobs?
Are you able to use it more regularly than the (already extremely modest at 15 sec) cooldown suggests?
Then yes, it is a “semi-spammable multi silence”, note I said semi-spammable.
One can debate whether it’s truly “utility” or not, but I figure it’s worth considering it more of a “thing” than not, given it’s a tool prot tanks use to move smaller caster packs around and disrupt them fairly reliably. It certainly brings something useful to the group, unless you’re claiming the ability to silence up to 3 mobs for 3 secs at max (usually less) of every 15 seconds is not useful at all?
