After removal of class buff scrolls, there are 5 classes that are needed in a raid to fill the buffs/debuffs needed, while other classes bring nothing to the table in a group/raid.
The buff/debuffs could be broken down like this:
Intellect: Mage, Warlock
Stamina: Priest, Paladin, Druid
Attack Power: Warrior, Hunter, Death Knight
Physical Damage Debuff: Monk, Rogue
Magic Damage Debuff: Demon Hunter, Shaman
I think returning back to having atleast 2 classes bring 1 buff/debuff would be healthy for the game, as it is happening with crez and bloodlust/hero. It would give a little boost to specs that feel that they bring nothing to a group, and give abit of flexibility to raids.
That could be good, yeah. But what would be cooler is that every single class get to bring relevant stuff like mages. And I’m not only talking aboot their Intell buff and heroism.
Outside of personal buffs/debuffs I don’t like them.
Look at DH. You bring 1 for the debuff, and right now DH tanks are OP so you see almost 0 DPS DH’s. If the DH debuff didn’t exist you’d not have this issue. Class stacking sucks, but so does a strict “1 class per group or you’re doing it wrong” meta.
i d love to have each class have an individual buff like druids used to have mark of the wild rather than have certain classes just lumped together.
plus, i wouldnt say that other classes who do not have any buffs bring flat out nothing to the table. each class brings something that benefits the raid group, whether its in shape of a buff or a cooldown or whatever, like druids and shamans have their roar/speedy wind totem thingy etc.
Actually I think most (if not all) classes already bring something “unique” that is pretty good. What i feel is that some bring more stuff than others, which is why I feel this would be better.
Yup, I agree with you, this is why i believe that having 2 or more classes bring a buff/debuff would help this. With this you could be more flexible with “needed buffs/debuffs” and see what good players you have/what classes do well in the fight you are doing.
While this would be good for class identity, i believe it would be bad for balance, cause it would reinforce the feeling “we need to bring X,Y spec for our raid now, so Z player cannot play this class”. I believe its best to offer flexibility.
You are totally correct on that observation, but the problem arises when classes have “way more” than what other specs bring. If let’s say a druid could have everything he has now (treants, roar, crez, sooth, decurse, beam,…) and on top of it also bringing intellect buff, bl, and purge, then he would be NEEDED in every group, just for the flexibility he gives you on other group members.
right, but if lets say priest, paladin and druid bring stamina buff, then you just pick whatever does the most damage/best tank/healing and then you have no reason to invite another class or spec.
or yeah we want attack power but this raid sucks for melee, so we only invite hunters.
this “you have to play z spec because its broken or convenient” is already a mentality in game without any buffs.
its like the same thing, just in worse imo. i d rather have class identity over an assumed balance. it worked before so i see no reason why it wouldnt work again. furthermore, the game will never be fully fair or balanced. thats impossible.
and thats kind of the point, isnt it? thats why you do not merge too much stuff into one class but give each of them their individual thing. having roar, combat rez (i ll leave out beam because thats only tied to moonkin, soothe isnt really relevant in raiding and other classes can soothe as well, and decurse is needed for healer so thats a given, not sure what treants are even useful for) and a buff is perfectly fine. giving them everything on top of that from other classes is not.
yes, druid has a big kit but it also has its weaknesses. each class has pretty much strengths and weaknesses.
i mean, why stop at buffs, just give everyone all the utilities and all the buffs so each class is “equal”. give everyone a lust, give everyone a combat ress, give everyone a roar and a ring of peace.
thats boring, i wouldnt want that. i d rather have people think what they want and need in their groups than everyone being a swiss army knife.
edit:
i mean, this swings both ways. “we need to bring a magic debuff so since all shaman specs can do that, you cant play enh because it does less damage than ele”. (just an example, no idea what the current dps situation is like for shaman)
in my opinion, just grouping classes together for certain buffs doesnt solve but merely moves the problem.
Not only that, sadly. I mean, some specs bring “cool stuff” but those are quite useless or irrelevant. I’m talking aboot things like bop and windfury totem. Blizzard should also be sharing more utility spells across classes. One stupid example I think of is ret paladin not bringing a raid wide CD whereas both dk and warrior do provide that. That’s stupid since ret is meant to be that “support” spec among plate classes.
Btw paladins bring a buff (auras, especially devotion) it is just that holy paladins are so good that they are almost required in every raid. And yes I saw that you said about ret but we gotta be fair, since you compared it to war and dk utility (which is class utility), we must take into account all paladin specs.
So you think that having all classes bring a unique buff/debuff would be better? Something akin to:
Warrior- AP buff
Mage- Intellect buff
Priest- Stamina buff
Demon Hunter- Magical debuff
Monk- Physical debuff
Paladin- Damage reduction (3%)
Druid- Mastery buff (3%)
Hunter- Critical buff (3%)
Rogue- Critical damage increase (5%)
Warlock- Versatility (3%)
Shaman- Haste buff (3%)
Death Knight- Movement & Leech (unholy aura, 5%)
Giving this just as an example? just wanted to see if you believe something akin to that would be better than let’s say having fewer buffs shared across 2-3 classes?
I do think am should be a class wide ability if utility spells are to be shared as class wide spells. Am should be given to both prot and ret, I see no reason, why they shouldn’t.
Seems good, but i think the hybrid healer classes should bring buffs only, since not all healers dmg the targets all the time. ( From an ordanary perspective).
