Class power is the issue across all content

Community General Discussion
21

PvP aside, even Blizzard have confirmed that they’ve made fights are harder because of the reliance on add-ons. Everyone (generalised as there will always be the exception) can beat open world content and you’ll never see a meta group for killing the very simple world boss.

To make it more interesting for all, they need to design fights where add-ons aren’t needed. Add a randomiser for boss mechanics instead of a cooldown or sequential abilities e.g. spell B always happens after spell A, then make it clear what is going to happen and punish those who don’t act on it.

WoW is 20yrs old now and so people know how fights go down, boss does xzy then phase 2, then abc and phase 3 and so on, there needs to be innovation and we aren’t getting that.

22

you understand it’s unavoidable damage due to the sheer power of classes, so stuff like this needs to be int he game to make people die… this wouldn’t be a thing if classes were weaker.

23

Name 3 spec that can do that.

Please note: Death Strike is too expensive, so it doesn’t count.

24

You mean bad tanks are being one-shot and healers can’t keep up with avoidable damage taken by the party.

Both are player-skill issues.

The tank nerfs from DF has showed people how bad they are at tanking.

25

Healer needs a raid to take it down now, and you are talking about buffs?

Have you see a good healer in a bg? lol

26

Bg healing isnt exactly easy, think about it a min your in an av you have a tile addon to heal with and the raid breaks do you heal drek or do you defend its kot as easy as saying heals are good or bad in bg if i bg heal i.do what i do as i was in a dung unless attacked by a player.

Back in df i did bg heal and was pretty good at it too, as i stated i struggled when the raid broke or when healing ppl that constantly run out of range just b4 a crucial heal lands on them.

Now im not saying its their fault but it is increcibly annoying when it happens.

As to the way i meant it rn healing is horrible in retail, i lvled my preist ln to lvl 79 only to find the balance in dungs is stuffed up massively i had tanks at lvl 80 dying on baine bloodhoof bc i couldnt keep up with the damage from the fire when he broke the platforms.

Generally speaking healers need a big buff bc were getting tanks that literally pull half a dungeon and think its ok im gnna be healed.

Palla tank ln went in to deep holm dung with our grp we died 6 times bc he wasnt holding aggro and positioning or even interupting at all, the very frst mob killed before i threw a heal bc hed just ran past them all to grp. Didnt land a singleblow what kind of tanking is that exactly ??

Pallies have a sheild throw lol just 1 button to hold them but no

Later on hes pulling 6 grps at a time how in The name of blue zueus am i supposed to outheal 3 ogres jumping on us at one time ? That is a 70% whack of hp lost on o e jump … nvm 3 !! On top of that i got 6 grps of aoe damage and melee being landed across myself and 3 lvling players.

I think his name was iskarr the dudes been slapped on ignore bc no matter how geared you are theres no excuse for that kind of behaviour in a dungeon, the guy just didnt give a damn bout the rest of us who actually needed the xp and for that you need to be alive…

It showed that gear does not a tank make some ppl are not meant to do it.

He had 11m hp but the rest of us at lvl 75 - 78 didnt.

Its not that im saying tanks are bad bc i also tank too its the majoritory of fools that think ok im leet af idc i do what i want then they cry if they die.

This im alright jack attitude needs to stop a 5 man grp is a team not one guy doing what he wants whilst the rest of us die repeatadley.

This is why tanks and heals need buffing.

I had a warrior pull baine and sit in the fire pool … he dies and leaves the grp in combat with no tank… ignored permanently. he didnt use cds he didnt know the fight but he should know fire is baaaadddd.

B4 you wonder yes… this was in one night,

Suffice to say last night alone i was forced to block ignore 3 tanks from diff servers bc they simply couldnt perform their role properly.

A threat aura or somthing being added incase one runs past mobs would be nice for us non tanks.

Obv the tank killer thing needs fixing too but when you get reeeaaaaalllyyyy bad players it makes you not want to heal or tank at all.

I had a shamny healer earlier in the week refusing to dispell the static cling on a boss in cata classic WHHYYYYYYYYY!!! its literally part of their job… blocked ignored.

27

Crikey, you block and ignore a lot of people.

Or if tanks were nerfed they’d not be able to attempt those stupid pulls, problem solved?

28

If they nerf tanks anymore theyll be useless on myhic keys the its player who is fault here.

I do agree tho that those pulls shouldnt be possible no matter geared you are.

The guy playing the tank came across as if he was uberflexing which is fine provided you do the job … he just didnt care about his behaviour i said im not running again after the 3rd death.

His response is run like the rest of them.

He was a complete pillock just didnt care about his actions whatsoever.

I can guarantee anyone on a mythic + 6 or 7 wouldn’t do that itd be insta wipe followed by a vkick abd possibly reporting him for antisocial behaviours.

Its not about your gear its more how you play that matters. Nobody want an A hole in a group.

29

No they’ll still try. They’ll just result in more failures.

Never underestimate someone’s ability to lower your expectations

30

Most mobs already 1-shot me or deal such severe damage that they practically might as well have.

I have to dodge VERY well.

Of course, as a mage, this doesn’t bother me too much. I signed up for that by making that choice.

But many specs did not, and it’s happening to them also.

While this is true to some degree, it really isn’t the playerbase that got dumber, it’s the game that got harder. A LOT harder. Just look at what the modern playerbase does to vanilla. They absolutely delete it.

I think Blizzard needs to stop focusing on making it intersting to play your spec against a target dummy. Classes should have self-interactions, sure, but it shouldn’t make up the majority of your gameplay. Your gameplay should be about fighting enemies, and more complexity among them means less for yourself.

Incidentally this would be a huge boon for PvP as well because it’s one thing having an overdesigned class - it’s another entirely to have 6 overdesigned classes running around at the same time interacting with one another.

Absolutely not. It’s entirely the opposite. Well, maybe healers are OK but tanks are definitely not. They are completely and utterly broken; OP beyond all reason.

Almost any mob that comes into contact with a DPS player one-shots said DPS player because the amount of damage a DPS takes compared to a tank is an order of magnitude.

What people fail to understand is that the more powerful you are, the more things you do best, and the more things you do best there more you must do, and the more you must do the more responsibility you get. This turns into a vicious cycle that makes the overpowered role severely more stressful.

Frankly, if the timer is removed as is being rumored, DPS players will be completely useless.

That is, and will always be, a load of wallop.

People will go into whatever keystone they like and they will learn because that’s the only way forward. We cannot have a game that discourages trying and putting in effort.

I never really felt it was rock/paper/scissors other than on accident as a balance issue. But it certainly was different and complementary, and I think that’s what you really mean? Like our classes are designed in ways that make us need one another.

I think M+, because it scales infinitely, inevitably shows imbalance at the top no matter what. There’s gonna be some crazy accident of circumstance somehow somewhere that just makes one particular comp the GOAT, and then the metaslavery begins. Unless you want everything to turn into the same blob there’s no counter to this.

1 Like
31

The problem is not that there’s a meta. It’s that people think that the 0.1% playing a particular comp will work just as well for someone who struggles to time a +4

Even a difference of 5% between specs doesn’t matter because most people don’t play 100% of their class.

32

If you cant do the utmost basic stuff then no, you have no place in a 8 or yet alone a 10. And I am not talking about pumping the correct numbers (although this could be debated for a couple DPS that I’ve encountered throughout the years, healers can get the excuse of DPS making their life a pain by not using defensives etc) I am talking about the basics of the dungeons mechanically (this includes not shooting the big ball of screw you in dawnbreaker into the wall next to you. Repeatedly.). You already learn in the low keys that stuff X hurts or will potentially very hurt at higher levels.

33

Not really, no. A lot of the time it’s easy to just outheal it.

Because healers are so incredibly strong, and it was even worse last expansion, there’s a very thin line between “it doesn’t kill me and I get healed up to max in 4 seconds” and an instawipe.

Again, healers and tanks, especially tanks, are utterly busted to the extent that it’s destroying the entire game, and nobody wants to play them because of this, however they think it’s the opposite.

34

If the healer is good enough. Sure. And a lot of the time it also not easy to just outheal and you flop over because of reasons like the healer not being good enough.

Yeah, I’ve seen it plenty of time alas. It could also be a case of someone tanking on their alt or off spec and not fully understanding it and flopping over and getting memed on as a result (case in point our BDK on his alt).

If I were to heal an 8 on my Pala right now I will guarantee you I would brick that key even with my ilvl. Regardless of the general key experience even.

Not what I was discussing.

35

Most of the players were using their defensive cds cause its fun i suppose , which remove the purpose of rewarding a good gameplay , i remember in df s3 i used to spam my defensive cds cause they were up without purpose , now a good management of cds is highly rewarded , it improve the player brain usage , m+ is not a place for “having fun” once you reach a certain key level , same goes for the raid , plus there is a literal addon with a voice announcer that tells you " hey bro use a defensive ".

36

It’s not as bad as it was. Some classes feel challenging enough, like DH, Pally, Warrior. Some feel lackluster, like BM and DK. And there’s my sweat bear. That one still could use some nerfs.

37

You are basically describing WOW classic. Well, there is a reason classic is very popular.

38

Agree, PvP feel mostly boring now with the amount of defensives and cc everyone haves. Even with the high dampen in shuffles rounds goes easily over 4 minutes and only ends when healing debuff gets high enough from dampen. Arena with less dampen felt even more boring with never ending cd trading and endless cc ppl can easily play 8min rounds and I find it boring atleast. “Things need to die” some from blizz said related PvP once, currently every spec just rotates defensives and self heals and cc endlessly that they kinda doesnt die unless they completely forget pressing button, I only see rounds lost when people dont use their defensives or cc to help their team in general and otherwise it always go over 4min per round.

39

It’s the entire role. When you compare them to one another, one is going to look great and the other not so great, but that’s not the point.

The point appears when you compare the capabilities and the importance of a tank to that of other players.

If the healer dies, the group can effectively survive for a while if they pop a lot of defensives compared to what they normally would, and the higher the keystone, the truer this is due to the amount of 1-shots where a healer can’t help you anyway. If a DPS dies, the boss can probably die anyway even from very high HP - it’s suboptimal due to the lower DPS, but it can often be done.

But when the tank dies, the mob takes turns to run to each member of the party and 1-shots them. And woe be you if it’s a multi-boss fight.

There is no chance of defending yourself. No chance of kiting. No chance of anything. Maybe you can live for a bit popping things like Mirror Images, but it is a strategy that buys you 5-6 seconds at best. You are immediately dead. Sometimes not even a boss at 5% can be killed without the tank.

Imagine a world where a dead tank implied a massive but usually healable increase in incoming damage. Basically a DPS has 60% of the tank’s capability, like a tank does DPS incidentally, and can survive blows for a while before falling over at the expense of tons of mana and focus from the healer.

That’s what it means to have a balanced tank.

The current situation puts tremendous and undue pressure on tanks.

2 Likes
40

I vaguely remember this being the intention with Legion? I also think people complained about the game being too easy. I guess that’s why we ended up with both complexities at the same time now :smile: