Class power is the issue across all content

Reducing class power is the answer to virtually every major problem right now

M+
The huge increase in survival, mobility and Crowd control meant the gameplay had to become more punishing, this drastically increased the amount of leavers when it goes wrong, the power of classes means when it does go wrong, it goes horrifically wrong and it’s easier to just go with another group.

Making the game less challenging but lower the tools to deal with the challenge means easier access to players and less demanding difficulty to cause horrific problems

Raids
Raiding seems to be the one place where it’s not as bad due to the quantity of players present, ultimately though Raiding is not as popular as M+ and class power is way more important in smaller groups because raiding with 10+ players meant to have access to all this power anyway, however having more power in a smaller group of players created bigger problems, reducing player power would not effect raids except by making less about stacking 1 or 2 overpower specializations

pvp
PVP is hit horrifically with the bloated class design due to mobility, utility and survival being major skill factors and on the contrary to belief, having more abilities does not increase skill but actually dilutes it because you can’t really make a game ending mistake unless you just forget to push something. additionally the constant uptime of melee creates an arms race which seems a constant back and forth between more survival or more mobility which puts more power into dampening which is ultimately a toxic design. The design of PVP deters new players massively as the game cannot be read without external websites or addons.

Across all content
excessive modifiers in conjunction with boss mechanics or other player mechanics, plus team work means an excessive requirement of addon use, which gives an unfair advantage in addition to further deterring new players.

Class power needs heavily reducing

Excessive modifiers, mobility, utility and defensive power needs heavily heavily reducing for both current players and new players

7 Likes

Isn’t this a contradiction?

If you lower the challenge and then take away tools that dealt with the challenge… it becomes more challenging because now you have less tools.

2 Likes

Not at all…

Take for example

You have 3 dps who all can heal 100% maximum health with short cds

You have a healer capable of AOE healing everybody to 100% max health on short cds

Tank has the ability to sustain himself to a certain degree

the PVE now has to make it so the group takes raid wide damage to force the DPS, healer and tank to use all the defensive abilities to survive, meaning the overall diffuclt across the board needs to be higher

where if this wasn’t the case and the cleave damage wasn’t as high and more focus on tank and healer, then amount of difficult can remain relatively the same but creates less margin of error as not everybody has to react at the same time and puts more reliance on a good healer and tank, makes it far more chill of an environment which will increase player activity and reduce toxicity level.

He’s talking about the difference between heavy punishments when it is hard to make mistakes vs light punishments when it’s easy to make mistakes.

As it happens I disagree with him on some points. Right now I feel that the game is over-complicated in general, and the punishment for mistakes is also often severe.

PvP is basically dead because basically nobody can play it.

Yes, i would also prefer if hostile NPCs are to have less but harder hitting abilities instead of this spam of semi deadly abilities we have now.
Such abilities should to be clearly telegraphed and with adequate number of seconds in between for “neurological” rest.
And let’s be real here, average wow player isn’t youngster anymore, and neurological degradation is something which comes with the age.

After x number of pulls such encounters can be mastered to flawless level, which is not possible with current model of semi deadly abilities spam, sometimes with RNG overlapping.

3 Likes

U know M+ scales right, u can just stick to lower keys instead of attempting +14 if u dont know how to use your kit. U don’t need to know how to use it in low keys.

1 Like

you know that M+ is currently trending at 50% less than the previous season? There are reason why PVE is failing and it’s entirely down to the class design as having a million buttons, modifiers and abilities to counter mechanics mean those mechanics needs to be harsher, more frequent and deadly. This creates an incredibly toxic environment where 1 failure results in people leaving, or stop players playing, and worse, stop new players starting.

The fact blizzard have acknowledge the requirement for addons are now gate keeping the gate, yet majority of addons are to do with class bloat.

It is for most of them but not for the main one: Gameplay.

You are correct that they added WAY too many tools for players, and they are trying to scale them back.

One of them has been the health pool increase so that healers can do lower healing compared to our higher healthpools. Same as the rollback of some survivability cooldowns (next patch shamans and dks are getting hit).

And to be frank I think they are doing a good job. We need to have abit less tools to answer problems, so that they can balance those tools correctly.

Although I do not think that this translates into rotational simplicity. So the same argument is not true for everything in the game. Sure enh shamans need to be simplified abit (which they are doing), but ret paladins are in a pretty good spot for being an easy/new player spec.

Curious take considering they cut down on button bloat for a some classes in TWW and if not they mostly have the same amount of buttons. So no, I don’t think u having to press 3 button rotation is the issue.

U can do up to KSH +10 with just DBM telling u when to press defensive lmao bro.

I don’t think classes are the issue at all though, m+ is less fun to me atm because of the insane amount of unavoidable AoE damage.

Feels like im playing statcheck sim instead of actually doing smth fun.

also bc we keep getting garbage dungeons from 20 years ago that no one actually wants to play.

While I do agree that there is too much bloat this is not the entire reason why PvE is failing.

You have a player base that has a lot of people who don’t have any patience to deal with anything other than perfect runs.

1 Like

Maybe DPS survivability needs to go down but Tanks and healers 100% need a buff if mob balance stays as it is.
Things were ok in Dragonflight, they just needed to nerf Vengence, which they did. It was the nerf to tanks and healers as well as the change to caster mobs that made everything tumble over.

4 abilitys + 1 ult per specc maximum
Also no gear and the game free too play
Make the game only PvP with minions too protect, one map should be enaugh and just work on putting out 100+ speccs

O wait thats League of Legends and what work here sure works in wow what could go wrong Kappa

They reduced healers and tanks enough so no its not the answer, if you feel op then run with lower gear and stop trying to force everyone else into your own niche.

If you ever bothered to play a harder role you’d understand that i’m right about this.

The fact of reality is that tanks are being 1 shot and healers struggle to keep up and your answer is to nerf them with every other spec ? Open your eyes !!!

It aggravates me when others post utter nonsense that is one sided.

Not everyone wants to play an easy role some want a challange.

We do not need that challenge made impossible bc shortsighted ppl who think they know best for everyone else post that “they” think they’re overpowered.

Another fact for you is they just had to buff tanks to remediate the one shot problem.

So why would anyone nerf across the board after just NEED buffing tanks.

Don’t even get me started with healing issues…

Depends on grp composition, depends on experiance, depends on timing.

Not all grps are the same.

Problem rather lies with people doing key levels they shouldnt be in, don’t know what the heck they are doing or are doing the most stupid pulls in human history just because they saw it on MDI.

So you mean its fullnof entitled who should maybe gomlook tacts up ?
That i agree on.
Like the gdkp argument, of you cannot do somthing then you shouldnt be doing it.
Either based on gear but kore importantly knowledge.

Thats why the healers need buffing instead of nerfs.
If you lower heal output the dps will 100% die bc they cannot keep up

What devasted PVE population was the cringe changes for interupts / stops and affixes being both forti/tyra plus xala’tath and 15 sec death punishment
Plus they changed great vault where you need to do 10 for myth track

Those things were not present in DF
So of course people will stop playing when game devs are instead of bringing fun
they are trying to annoy you…

I’m rather torn here. I personally enjoyed the game better when it was more ‘rock paper scissors’. Classes/specs had better defined flavour, utility, strengths and weaknesses. I find that more interesting myself. At the same time I get why they added a lot of utility, either for better solo play, or better for group play and getting invited. It can get annoying when you have hardly any options for self healing for example when you are playing solo, eating food isn’t an acceptable answer these days with the much faster paced gameplay. I think many players wouldn’t enjoy a return to that.

I also think M+ as a format rather demands individual responsibility and individual choices and that can only happen if you have the tools to counter certain events. I think if you removed that, you’d have to redesign the challenge itself and I’m guessing it’d feel like a regression to a more oldschool kind of play. Once again I doubt that’s what people would like.