We also had several nerfs after the overhaul and gradually just dropped down more and more. Currently we aren’t performing well in raid, we do okay in M+. However destroying people in PvP seemed to be the cause for most of the nerfs. I honestly wish they could properly separate out PvP and PvE.
We need a better fix than just a flat percent buff. They need to do something to our talents or undo some of what they nerfed before.
@Punyelf
Okay I totally get you, I can’t remember that with the overhaul you also got nerfes. Fair enough 
But what if they reverted those nerfs today, would that bring retri back the place most of you in this thread wish for?
36 keybinds, maybe you got over 9.000 ? 
probably more.
Dh is a joke, in terms of difficulty especially in the macro and keybind departament.
But count them yourself:
Q W E R T Y
A S D F G H
Z X C V B N M
1 2 3 4 5 6
plus 6 mouse buttons plus scroll wheel up down and middle click.
F1 F2 F3 F4
Caps Lock
Shift plus Caps Lock
Shift plus Space
Shift plus Q E R T Y
Shift plus S F G H
Shift plus Z X C V B N
Shift plus 1 2 3 4
Shift plus F1 F2 F3
Shift plus Scroll Up Down In
Ctrl plus Scroll Up Down In
Ctrl plus 1 2 3
Ctrl plus Q E R T
Ctrl plus S
Ctrl plus F G H
Ctrl plus Z X C V
Alt plus Space
Alt plus Z X C
“3% buff wont magically make anyone part of the 95th percentile which is something most people dont seem to get”
The statistics stay pretty much the same even with 80th percentile for both HC and Mythic… having 2 other specs sliding down to the level of ret paladins is really not much of a change of you look at the overall picture.
…sure you can include everyone then you will have a skewed result of the class potential but if you include everyone that means you have people with 20 itemlvl difference and their crappy dps has nothing to do with gear when they are gearing an alt or funneling gear with friends 
The top 20% or 10% of the players represent well the dps potential of a spec so naturally people will look at those numbers because if you balance dps around 100% the top 20% will end up with huge differences in potential and that is where you dps really matters …no one cares about your dps in LFR or a 15+ m+ key if you know the mechanics and you smash your keys randomly you will do enough dps anyway to kill the boss or time a key
In HC an Mythic or 20-25++ keys it really starts to matter what is your dps potential with your spec because people want a smooth and easy run and who you gonna pick ?? A spec that will do 20% less dps in raid or 30% less aoe in mythic+? ofc not …you will pick the top 5-6 dps specs + the mandatory BL if you dont happen to have a spec with that in the top because you want to succeed and have an easy run instead of wiping and struggling or breaking your key
This doesnt mean that a player who only do LFR or M+15 keys is not important …but we are talking about balancing and people in 460 itemlvl not wishing to progress in mythic raid is barely affected with the imbalances in dps anyways… but people in the top 10-20% has a huge impact on their player experience if they happen to play a spec that is literally on the bottom when it comes to dps.
“Okay I totally get you, I can’t remember that with the overhaul you also got nerfes. Fair enough But what if they reverted those nerfs today, would that bring retri back the place most of you in this thread wish for?”
sorry but I’ll chime in on this if you dont mind.
Ret rework was done at the end of the patch cycle. Blizz did what they always do with ret they buffed them too much and they were godlike - no one will argue about that - and they do this always at the end of a patch or an expansion because it doesnt really matter at that time when people are already done with both pve and pvp progression…
and the other specs ofc - mainly pvp - quickly showed up on the forums to complain rightfully so that ret is too strong and its ruining pvp …keep in mind at that point any and all serious pvp player was already done griding for their ranks since this was at the end of the patch.
but Blizz did again as they always do they quickly nerfed back the spec over 3-4 weeks of gradual nerf to the spot where it was (if you want a number it was around ~15th place in pve).
The rework made the rotation more simple which you could argue either way if its a good or bad thing… they also improved survival a bit.
And sadly this is the cycle ret paladins experience ever since Legion. There are deeply flawed spec design issues with ret that the Devs didnt address at all.
This hurts ret paladins a lot because Blizzard promised to listen to the feedback…
if you go back and look at the beta forums you will find that ret paladins had only one and a half page worth of communication about changes and plans for the spec from the devs…
the reason behind is that some classes do not have a dedicated developer. For example warriors have a dedicated dev for their spec …which really shows if you look at the beta forum …you can literally scroll the pages for minutes there with communication and updates from the dev - not player reactions… its purely notes only from the dev…
This alone clearly shows where the issue lies. Paladins are not a priority. The only spec that shines is the prot paladin spec - but again the gameplay is not very satisfying with that either since their baked in most of the things dmg and mitigation too into one ability so all you have to do is just time your big cds other than that you can faceroll your keyboard and perform well even if you have never played prot paladin before.
The ret paladins never asked for more damage but this is all the Blizz gives them all the time. They do this lazy aura damage buff 9 out of 10 times and thats it.
If you would go on the paladin forums you would find that for years paladins begged for the devs to address their mobility issue. There is a good reason that everyone calls them a “wheelchair” dps.
Another very big problem is if you look at the numbers at the start of a season the numbers will lie …because ret paladins have a passive ability that gives them “wings” for 9 seconds whenever someone dies in their raid or party within 40 yards.
For those who are not familiar with the “wings” buff (avenging wrath) it provides 20% damage/healing buff and 20% crit and during avenging wrath paladins can throw their “execute spell” hammer even if the target is on 100% hp instead of under 20% which thanks to some talents is super strong and always do critical damage.
As you can imagine during the first 2-3 weeks most players will die a lot when they are learning the new raid boss fights or m+ dungeons so they constantly give a huge buff to ret paladins throughout the fight…
as time goes on players will learn the fights and less and less ppl will die …so ret paladins will lose this passive damage buff a lot…
This is why you can see them in the middle of the pack for the first couple of weeks then they sharply drop off the dps chart because they lose that extra buff so the numbers for ret paladins are skewed.
And this is an issue that ret paladins constantly ask a fix for but the Dev team doesnt care.
Name another dps spec that relies on other players to die around them to get 20% damage and 20% crit buff?
Its a dumb design that was expecting other players to fail… it should have never been introduced in the first place but they are not willing to change it for whatever reason.
Ofc there are other core issues. Without going into abilities here are some basic stuff.
Mastery scaling was nerfed to the ground for ret paladins so its pretty much the worst secondary stat for them …but actually now the rest is terrible too so they are the point where its worth taking some mastery too
Versatility is a pvp stat so naturally the scaling for that is not great either but gives more to ret paladins than mastery so they tend to take that over mastery but there is only a minor difference between the two.
Crit stat was baked into most abilities via talents. This means that certain core ret paladin abilities have a guaranteed crit… they always crit because the talent guarantees that so having 1% crit change or 100% crit chances changes nothing for the ret paladin in those abilities because they baseline already have a built in 100% crit chance …this devalued crit stat too so apart from haste all 3 other secondary stat is terrible for ret paladins… so their scaling is terrible …meaning that if you improve the itemlvl of a ret paladin with +20 itemlvl and another dps class with +20 itemlvl the other spec will have waaay more benefit from their gear and dps increase then ret paladins would …simply because ret paladin scaling is terrible.
so giving them damage and then nerfing them if an eternal cycle since Legion …the rework was something but if you look at it from close enough it was pretty much a fart in a hurricane and didnt address the core issues with the spec.
There should have been an actual rework where they change the spec drasticly to make it work …but they dont care enough to pay a dedicated dev who actually know what is he doing…
As you can imagine since the paladins dont have a dedicated dev …this explains why ret paladins got a “rework” in the middle of the expansion while 90% of the other classes got that during the beta.
It is safe to assume that Blizz forced the “rework” job on a warrior dev or druid dev or whatever they had who had a couple of free hours.
Now I dont know about you but if I’d be a warrior or priest dev I wouldnt really care about paladins and would probably I would end up doing a s*tty job reworking that class/spec…
Also it is very evident from the patch notes and many class reworks that half of the Dev team doesnt even play the game so they dont know what they are doing.
But some of them do… props to the warrior dev for example because he actually listened and did a good job communicating with his community during the beta and did good changes
…I dont know where is that Dev now …probably on a vacation because there is not much happening on the warrior front either when it should in my opinion.
I actually find it insulting that for a decade+ now they openly share that they dont have dedicated class devs apart from like 6 classes …we pay a lot of money if you look at it so hiring +1 person for each spec to have someone who actually cares about that spec and knows what they are doing should be something that we shouldnt even ask for…
I play with multiple classes but If I’d only play ret paladin or main ret paladin I would have quit the game a long time ago. They are neglected since Legion and they only have 3-4 weeks when they are not only good but godlike because they are buffed way too much only to be quickly nerfed to the ground then stay there for the rest of the patch/expansion.
And this “development” cycle lead to the playerbase hating on ret paladins in my opinion because people tend to have a deeper reaction to bad things
…no one notices if they dont play ret paladin that for 95% of the expansion it was bottom dps …they only remember the 3-4 weeks when they were godlike and everyone complained about them …especially in pvp when they 3v1 everyone for a month then they become a dead/useless spec.
Props to you if you managed to get to the end of this wall of text
i get that im just saying most of the people discussing the buff not being good enough are the people for which it’ll make zero difference
the buff wont make you stop logging grey is all but some think it will
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