Is this the start of reverting all the poor changes that were made to Shadow? Damnation and Void Origins back next, please.
I hope they do. ALL they had to do to break the Exodia comp of S2 is nerf utility. Instead they nerfed damage again and again and left you guys in the gutter.
Sad.
Weirdly enough, there seems to be an obligation of blizz to make mages OP every season for some reason. Because they dodged the Exodia bullet.
Speaking of Exodia left overs, Aug is still there. Hiding behind the bushes of a broken log system. Those keep dodging the bullet…
You conveniently used “all percentile” statistics the give skewed numbers. You should use 80 or 90th percentile stats which would actually reflect the more serious end of players progressing in HC and Mythic.
So balance the game around top 10-20%? No thanks
Ofc for raiding and m+ balance should be based around the ~top 20% which shows the potential of each class and not your 463 itemlvl 15-16 m+ keys kinda casual potential… as you could experience its pretty easy to get by in 15s or LFR raid where you made progresson for that you really dont need any “balance” for your spec especially when half of the LFR raid is afk and 3 ppl carries the whole thing anyway.
But sure lets balance endgame HC and Mythic raid and 20 25 30s keys based on your casual experience for everyone that will surely work out well for semi-hc/hc players with all the expected minmaxing nature of the game that pretty much became baseline a long time ago 
Why do you even care about balance in Raid finder raid and M+ 15s when you can finish them with closed eyes. Around +20s ppl start to pick the top specs and if you are not playing with your friends you will have a hard time getting into any pug groups if you dont play those specs.
I think we should be fair and people should be around the same level when it comes to dps potential …and btw healing and tanking potential too so then the game would be “bring the player not the spec” instead of the current bring the spec that is overtuned and lets mow down the content and who cares about the other 10 specs that are not “viable” in the eyes of the playerbase.
You chime in with your casual point of view not even considering for a moment that balance and class potential not really gonna affect you in raid finder and m+15 where most player will play at a medicore level where the dps evens out but it will certainly ruin the game experience for some unfortunate WW monks, warriors, ret paladins or mages etc. that deserve the same potential for their spec so they can enjoy the content and make progress at higher levels instead of spending 1 hour in group finder not finding any parties.
I for one tend to invite some of these underdog specs when we need a pug player for something because if they know the mechanics we should be able to time the key anyways and for 20-30 minutes they can enjoy the game by simply getting into a group and the same applies for HC raid.
Maybe consider thinking of others too and dont be so selfish to think that everything should be balanced around you and your level when you dont push keys and didnt even clear the raid on normal.
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so you tried to pull “L2p” argument. But all players pay the same money for the game, so no. Also “dont be so selfis” lol! We are literally talking about majority vs minority. Specs should be balanced against “Avarage Andy”
You’re comparing your personal experience (anecdotal evidence) to a dataset.
You’ve pugged for 4 weeks. It’s entirely possible that you had really good DH’s (or really bad ones) in all 4 runs. You can’t look at the dps meters for those 4 runs and conclude that DH’s rock / suck based on this.
A larger dataset gives a more complete picture. Sure, not everyone logs their runs but on balance you’re going to get a decent distribution of people that are good and bad which will give a truer picture.
Read my comment again please no one said anything about “l2p”.
You run raid finder difficulty only atm and ~m15+ keys which is far from the high end progression and that is not an insult or a “l2p” argument that is a simply fact…
This comes with another fact that you wont experience much exclusion in pug groups just because you play a spec that could be 15-20% behind dps wise even when you perform in what would be considered as the top 20% of the players of that spec compared to those who are running m+20-25-28 keys or HC and Mythic raids.
A lot of people are playing in pugs for HC raid for example but even people who are in guilds are not in a better position because a progression guild would want to go with an optimal comp and they wont take 5 players from the bottom dps specs when they can go with dps specs from the top 4-5 rank.
Those numbers quickly add up with ~20% dps advantage for the top ~3-4 spec compared to everyone else and could mean the difference between a Heroic or Mythic raid boss kill or endless wipes. Tbh Heroic is not that hard so for guilds its managable in my opinion even if they take some dps from the bottom but people generally want to have the best chances and easiest kills so everyone would prefer to go with specs from the top half of dps specs.
M+ is the same… people wont run pugs or even friends groups wont go into higher keys with people who do 20-30% less aoe and/or st damage That would be a struggle instead of an easier run.
Everyone wants smooth runs …so its only natural that since it is widely known which specs are on the bottom people wont invite them into their pug group because it is already enough “risk” to have an unknown random person to run a higher key with the. to take on the risk of losing significant amount of damage making the run longer and riskier and by that making less room for errors if you want to time the key.
You dont have to “l2p” no one argued about that.
The game has different difficulty level for a reason …as the matter of fact many people dont even do any raids or m+ and they only play the pvp part of the game …some people are not doing any of those and they just collect mounts, pets, transmog, achievements or RP which is perfectly fine …but it is reasonable to balance the game around those who are progressing in raid and m+ or high rated pvp because there really matter who falls behind 20%+ with their dps.
For a raid finder group it wont really change anything because most people will either play well doing great dps or at a medicore lvl with medicore dps and a few deaths here and there which is accounted for when the raid finder difficulty is designed so it doesnt really matter if the dps potential for a rogue spec is 20% above everyone else …it doesnt matter if that rogue lives up to the expectations or not
…also at that lower raid difficulty people will have lower item lvl usually - being a casual player or gearing alt - so the difference between their potential will shrink anyways…
And for soloing old raids or doing world quest or pet battles or superbloom events class balancing doesnt really matter.
…so again …yes the game should be balanced around the top 20% of the playerbase when it comes to dps potential because that is the group that in 99% will live up to that potential and where it actually matter the ~20% dps difference.
For the “Average Andy” as you said that dps potential will never gonna be realized but even if it would be it wouldnt really mean much …finishing an old raid for transmog 30 seconds faster or killing 8 world quest mob 10 seconds faster overall would mean very little to the Average Andy …but “Progressing Andy” in Mythic raid the 20% difference could mean making into the raid group or not, same applies for high mythic keys and even if their guild “allows” them to participate or a pug invites them for raid it can make or break the raid if his missing 20% dps is the 1% that they gonna wipe on
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Still stupid meta affect all levels of game. As well as dps. Also you division of players “real players” and “lfr, quest mob killlers” is soooo lame. Your pathetic attempts of insulting is funny though.
Again - all players pay same money of all skill levels, that why balance should be done for avarage player.
[Tier set bonus BUG since start of 10.2]
Warrior second set bonus doesn’t work properly.
Steps to reproduce:
1-Put your odyns fury into cooldown.
2-Get whirlwind stacks and 5 targets. cleave dummys will do.
3-Get recklessness to ensure more than one crit.
4-Observe odyns fury cooldown for next step
5-Press bloodthirst/bloodbath.
Actual result:
Reduced cooldown only happens once, regardless of how many crits bloodthirst did.
Expected result:
Bloodthirst critical strikes reduce the cooldown of Odyns Fury by 2.5 seconds.
You know, like it says in the tier set. Remove that senseless internal cooldown.
[Rant]
Why do we get to have one of our worst skills have an internal cooldown on the only thing making it worth our time? Which is the capability of using our second worst skill tree path skill, the overly glorified whirlwind called odyns fury, while demon hunters have the first tier set bonus increasing the damage potential of their best skill in both Single target and multitarget, and their second bonus further increasing the damage potential of that?
Wtf is wrong with blizzard? Hire a damn engineer for once and put some math into class balance… geez, get a grip.
[End Rant]
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The balance should be done around the potential of the class. Is nobody’s fault some players can’t play their class. On lower level the balance does not influence anything. You can do +15s with 5 tanks and time it with no issues. So literally in easier content the balance has no influence. The fact that players in lower tiers don’t have any idea what they are playing, and still follow the meta, that is not a game issue, that is a mentality issue, and blizzard should not be responsible for it.
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Very interesting, especially Destro aoe buff and fire mage buff. I think this will be positive.
Meanwhile, in Havoc world, uncapped skill gets improved twice with one tier set and makes it all automatic and passive just by pressing it off cooldown, and just by doing so you surpass most classes under min maxed conditions.
Blizzard is responsible for the sheer lack of mathematical notion. Stop hiring smol indie companies to come up with tier set bonuses and maybe it will work out.
The game is dead anyways noone playing atm listed a +21 dungeon was waiting like 1h and only 2 dps requested .
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where hpal buff
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Well 
I called it didn’t I? When I said that those crybabies who kept pushing for BM and Havoc nerfs… how about… all the three mages in meta now? 
feel like you achieved something?
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Not to get into the argument of balancing averages Vs potential, wcl covers all gear levels and includes the parses of people who died at any point in the encounter. 50% parses are not average players, which I know at first sounds counter intuitive.
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I don’t get why (some, not all) retri palas are compiaining. I know 3% aint a sexy number by any means, but it is still a buff. 3% will be plenty of 1000’s of dmg in an entire dungeon run.
On top of that most retri’s Ive been with in keys has smashed and / or won total dmg with DHs and BM hunter in group. I know I know the DH + BM could’ve been bad, but all the time? Naa…
It totally depends who play. In my personal experience - anything from +10 to +20 and above, the retri pala have been top on the damage.
You don’t understand why we aren’t excited by a 3% buff? Maybe this visual will help.
Overall Damage 95th Percentile
Overall Damage All Percentiles
Boss Only Damage All Percentiles
Will be nice for WW though, they have got a proper buff.
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Might see more WW monks in queue.
Yea that helped some @Punyelf. But retri had an big overhaul mid expansion and preformed well last patch. And in recent runs (Im and can only talk from own experience) retri has been winning the meters in dungeons.
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3% buff wont magically make anyone part of the 95th percentile which is something most people dont seem to get