Classic Plus "Unpublished content" requirements

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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IF they did classic+, which I’m not massively in favour of, they’d have to make sure of a few things for me not to be enraged:

  1. They have to be a set of separate new classic realms that are not replacements or connected to the nochanges classic era servers.

  2. The content has to be designed in the philosophy of classic wow. This means a few things:

2a. New raids and dungeons must have only one difficulty and raid size

2b. New gear must not continue the power creep past naxxramas power levels

2c. The world content must have a mix of non elite and elite content for groups and solo play

2d. The new zones must not use wotlk and beyond phasing technology to tell the story or separate out players.

2e. The new content must not provide rewards to make nochanges content easier/quicker (for example rep tokens for vanilla reputations)

2f. Gear rewards must not be randomised, loot should be deterministic and only come in one form and must drop scarcely for the amount of players the raid is intended for

2g. Any new legendaries must be in the classic style. No welfare legendaries that become requirements instead of rewards for the select few

2h. They must use the classic art style, not retail’s disney style

  1. No modern conveniences should be added. No dual spec, no lfr, no lfd, no increased item stacks, no retail AH, no TBC specialisations or beyond, no flying, no CRZ, no joined realms etc…

What content would I think could be cool?

  1. Classic Hyjal (battle for mount hyjal raid but set in the present, not caverns of time instance. Archimonde is invading AGAIN, shard of the defiler legendary?)

  2. Classic Grim Batol (classic version of deathwing as final boss? Deathwing themed legendary weapon?)

  3. Classic Uldum (treasure finding open world content with finding map pieces and joining them together to complete the map and then following the map to the treasure location, multiple new dungeons, alakir raid?)

  4. Classic Kezan (goblin playable race with classic model?)

  5. Classic Gilneas (worgen playable race with classic model?)

  6. Classic dragon isles zone finished (world bosses?)

  7. Classic Kara (and kara crypts) (give atiesh more relevant use within classic wow)

  8. Classic Quel’thalas (troll raid/dungeon & high elf/blood elf playable race?)

  9. new baseline races? (Ogres? Naga? who knows…)

  10. Azshara crater BG finished

  11. Classic emerald dream zones finished (world bosses, reputations, dungeon, a raid?)

  12. Classic hellfire peninsula finished (mag’s lair + hellfire dungeons)

instead of classic+, I’m much more in favour of redoing the post-TBC expansions in a more classic design but seeing the cry out for conveniences in classic and tbc, I don’t think this dream will be realised.

I’d hoped for a wotlk with maybe no heirlooms, no LFD, no heroics AND normal difficulties / just 1 hard difficulty, no ICC buff, harder heroic dungeons, longer gap between ulduar release and TotC release, no cash shop services

A cata with permanent pre-nerf heroic dungeons, shorter gaps between patch releases, azeroth flying locked until level 85 and made a lot more expensive, no CRZ, no LFR, no cash shop services etc…

A MoP with harder heroics, a daily quest cap, no LFR, no boost, no cash shop services, make monks a hero class so more people would be willing to reroll to them and not make them DoA, no thunder and warforging, no flex mode etc…

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What if they created a new fresh start with rewritten class balance and itemisation so that balance druids would be viable from phase 1, and the power creep between MC and Naxxramas was so minor that it would be viable to add more raids that continue it?

Since they have to be separate servers, a rebalanced fresh start sounds reasonable.

Oh, and increase the difficulty of solo content. And reduce the XP rate a little bit, to 0.8x for example, and reduce the rested XP accumulation rate greatly, so that it takes a month of not playing to get full 1.5 levels of blue.

That definitely wouldn’t be Classic art style.

If we want to add a custom mechanic, I’d wish for an open world PvP zone with events constantly taking place. Something like AB, but persistent and the buildings giving some benefits to players (ie. mine lets players mine actual ore inside, farm gives players buffs and lets them restock on good water and food, at blacksmith you can craft or buy PvP gear, stables increases your faction’s mounted speed, etc) - and much bigger than actual AB, with much more capture points. Something akin to the early versions of Gloria Victis - damn, that was awesome.

What about a non-dungeon-finder and non-multi-difficulty-raid WotLK, and after that, an expansion that returns players to the original continents, and opens up areas that were previously unfinished, such as Gilneas, Uldum, Hyjal, or Twilight Highlands (sounds familiar?) but in unchanged world and again with no dungeon finder, excessive heirlooms, or multidifficulty?

Myself, I’d like heirlooms in WotLK as long as they were all heirlooms in the game and future heirlooms would only fit in the same slot, so you don’t get fully-heirloom-geared OP characters. Plus, don’t institute the TBC levelling nerf, so it remains a Vanilla x0.8 XP rate, therefore the heirlooms won’t increase it past the original vanilla XP rate.

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Well with nochanges, boomies are NEVER viable in classic, only in TBC and beyond. If you’re talking about having 1.12.2 balancing from phase 1, we already got that the first time around. If you’re referring to custom balance changes then I’d say maybe but only if those fresh realms are a select few and separate from the nochanges fresh realms.

I mean sure but my preference for classic+ even would not be rebalanced classes otherwise at a certain point you move from classic+ to just one of the expansions (whichever the changes make classic most similar too)

I’d like to see the difficulty of all level dungeon mobs and bosses increased actually. They were a joke in classic and contributed towards dungeon grinding being the levelling meta amongst other things. If dungeons were harder and gave less XP then maybe open world questing would become the most efficient way to level which would be nice for a competitive player like myself.

I’m not sure about a flat XP reduction but reducing XP from elites (namely dungeon elites) would be a welcomed change

They could finish up that old scrapped zone they had going on with the giant fossil temple. It’s hidden away in the vanilla client.

sure, I’d be up for things that promote player socialising and interaction in the world

Sounds an awful lot like an open world garrison. Not sure I like this idea at all

exactly that kind of thing, yes

so improved cata… yeah, I’d be up for it but I think the expectation for them to do cata in the old azeroth is unrealistic because of how much effort that revamp was in the first place. I’d settle for new azeroth but with fixed game systems like no LFD etc…

Some people don’t mind any amount of heirlooms, some draw the lines at full sets, I draw the line at any heirlooms personally, they are immersion breaking when I see other people in them (same as low levels on flashy mounts) and they aren’t needed

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No. Imagine this. The mine doesn’t just have rocks hanging around, it lets players enter it and let’s say there are several rocks and each can be mined endlessly, but with a long duration, so it doesn’t get too much faster than farming in the world.

And while the mine belongs to the horde - horde players are sitting there. So alliance players have overall better chance at capturing anything. Same goes for blacksmith.

No cata at all, just a brand new expansion with new content and new lore branch.

A catch-up mechanic that, instead of reducing difficulty and XP rates for everyone, it does only for your alts.

Even better - instead of heirlooms, you just get an account-wide unlock for a buff that benefits each class and spec equally, and increases XP rate a little bit, but doesn’t work at level cap, and gradually reduces the stat bonus over the last few levels. It is a lot weaker than heirlooms and it has ranks like spells - you get one rank increase for character you get to max level, up to 2 can be earned from PvP and up to 2 from PvE, and up to 2 from max-level professions.

So, imagine that the XP rate in outside world is 0.8x, mobs have 1.2 times their original HP, and dungeon XP rate is 0.5x and dungeon mobs have 1.5 times their original HP.

So let’s say that the maximum rank of that buff is 10 (4 from max-level characters and 6 from endgame achievements) - and each rank increases the XP rate by 5% and player’s damage by 2%.

So, with maximum rank, the open world XP rate would be 1.2x of original vanilla XP rate, and in dungeons it’d be 0.75x of original vanilla XP rate. Open world mobs would be as hard as in Classic, and dungeon mobs would be a little bit harder and slower to kill.

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how on earth would u balance that, seems risky to me

but many servers have massively lop-sided faction populations

I think you expect too much from blizzard

but I might be levelling my main when you’re levelling your alt so you’re ruining my experience.

yeah this would be fine, I’ve wanted this on retail instead of heirlooms for years

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Cata, TBC, heirlooms?!
Please don’t destroy the idea of classic+ even before it takes off.

Just add stuff and content in the existing world. Open up the locked zones. Should be easy to tweak eg. existing Hyjal material to for in to the classic spirit. Keep the classic spirit.

Minimum common denominator, otherwise this will not be goodie.

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There are also the type of damage. Arcane bonus on a leather set and woooosh you get a playable Balance Druid. And the bonuses of damage or menace for hybrid classes to be more viable as dps or tank.

This my dear lady/sir, should not happen :slight_smile:

Agree.

Agree.

Yes.

Indeed

Absolutely

legit

I agree too, the art was great in spite of the means of the time.

However I would add character customizations, that is objectively too low in Classic. But such customisations kept in the classic style, and under condition to unlock them through relevant lore quests.

  • For instance, you learn more about the Wildhammer Clan in a future Northeron zone, then you’ll unlock the Wildhammer tatoos, so you can reroll a Dwarf that have them. So no people would be left with options they don’t understand.

Could be detailed to argue but globally I agree.

  • Inventory : I’m for bigger bank slots and adding the guild bank system as new items and sets are added. Let’s face the truth there is no relevance of pushing for more Mules with bank-puns as names. That said, I agree that 200-piles and huge bags are immersion-breaking and lazy.
  • Flying. :angel: I have my own way for a Classic flight to get working without ruining the world.
    – Max altitude of flight : few meters. Let a “glass ceiling” under the trees canopy, so the stonewalls and mountains are still relevant (especially as they aren’t intended to be seen from the sky so most are unfinished).
    – The current Flight paths (that get higher than that new glass ceiling) are allowed. Story-wise explained as good air currents. If they click on the fly master, people will see their character using their own flying mount instead of the default mount there, so they have the feeling their mount accompany them in their travels.
    – A Fatigue Flight bar, that pops out each time you take off, just like when it happens for the far sea.
    – Can’t summon a flying mount into the water.
    – Can’t summon over the “glass ceiling” either. (For example if someone gets in the mountains, on a roof, or a tower out of a flying path, and so on.)
    – One gets a racial flying mount at lvl 60 after a training quest (a bit like the winterspring tiger, but shorter lol).
    – Dwarves and Humans train with the gryphons. Night elves with the hippogryphs. Gnomes with the flying machines. Orcs and Taurens with the wyverns. Trolls and Undeads with the giant bats. (Later: High elves with the dragonhawks - I mean not the insects from BC, lol. Goblins with the balloons.)
    – No Dragon. Ever.

Archimonde is dead there and meant to be definitely, this time! You’d see the Night Elves and Dark Trolls struggling to purify the mountains and revive the world tree.

Why not! Zuluhed also.

Nice idea. Uldum should be handled very differently from its Retail implementation anyway.

I buy it.

Not sure. Worgen are a monster race with a lore regarding the Shadows. Could be a thing but again very differently from Retail story.

I buy all this too.

Why not. Definitely more this way than “revealing” out of place races as playable ones while old known races are let aside.
Yet “Pandaren” would be legit, and Nightborne as “Dark elves” also (I found some art in the RPG that was a time capsule haha, basically Dark Elves forseen in Warcraft).

Fine!

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The only problem I see with this is that classic art style really just means a lot lower res / pixelated. Can blizzard replicate this style with new assets made in 2021 or were they a product of their time? Arbitrarily making new animations and textures that look ‘2004’ might be harder than you realise.

meh, I’m not

I like the guild bank but is it classic? I don’t know. This is classic+ not an expansion remember

The problem with this idea is that where the glass ceiling is will vary massively from zone to zone so it would probably be very frustrating to use a flying mount but not in a good way, it would just feel clunky as your mount constantly hits it’s head of the invisible ceiling. Additionally, it could look quite clustered with people hovering around on their flying mounts all so close to the ground. Finally, melee classes still wouldn’t be able to hit those players at the max height which is a big part of classic world pvp. Also, you still fly over all the mobs.

could be interesting… I personally think they should have done this in TBC (not TBC classic) actually to avoid people being perma in the air

don’t think it really makes any difference tbh other than the fact that all mounts do that in vanilla anyway

kinda goes back to my first problem I presented

each race having its’ own flying mount is cool but they haven’t even done that in retail and they didn’t do it in TBC so I’m not so sure that is realistic to expect it in classic+

sure, I just don’t want it to be time travel. I want it to be taking place in the world of classic.

I just say it because they were the alliance equivalent of the goblins in cata and they also have a vanilla model that could be reworked into a playable model.

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You’d need to offer a major bonus for that to be any good.
It’s the spec itself that is bad, not the gear.
Runs out of mana fast, low damage.

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Classic+ isnt just TBC Pre-Patch basically?

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I would like to leave this definition of the word naive, to the people who believe that Blizzard will actually deliver anything of quality when it comes to classic+.

“lacking knowledge, experience of life, or good judgment, and willing to believe that people always tell you the truth”

  • Oxford dictionary
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If too hard then let’s keep the original assets as they are. Can they separate the eye color from the face structures in the old assets as they did for the modern ones recently? At the very least, you could have the NPC options, wildhammer tatoos and forest troll skins are already in.

I see no class that have no way to hit at all, rogues and warriors have ranged weapons, pals have spell. They could still hit and have a chance to dismount the target.

Not with the Fatigue or they will fall and eventually the mount lands by itself. But if you look at the old flight path design, the gryphon went under the canopy most of the time so this still makes sense.

Then it should be rendered without the “hit” animation, unlike an invisible wall. A smoother limit instead, to get a softcap of the maximum altitude… The mount automatically falls and soars down when the glass ceiling is reached.

You got the point X)

So it should be pushed clearly by the community. It should be the same way as the ground mounts with reps.

Again, high MP5 can have it work. There are so many parameters other than Hit and general stat!

Absolutely different. No BC lore and story, another Quel’Thalas, unpublished zones.

Again:

So it should be pushed clearly by the community.

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due to the subtle differences I’ve noticed in the now separated options in retail vs the pre-separated ones in retail, I’ve come to the conclusion that they probably made new assets to do that.

The range isn’t that far and they do no damage and take ages to aim so u could just fly away.

yeah but people don’t control FP and they move very fast and are always on the go, not hanging around particular areas like player controlled mounts would.

if they could do this, I’m sure they would on retail. I don’t think what you’re asking for exists.

I’m just saying I would not expect more from blizzard to be put in classic+ then they were willing to put in retail.

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Thinking about that I agree, hover flight does break immersion. A flying mount should be moving at any time.

So yes, the fly should also function as a “glide” that can only be controled in direction :thinking: Nothing hard to define, yet.

If the WoW engine can dismount automatically when entering water, then the code can support what I’m talking about. Just an event that triggers and an automated reaction and animation.

If it doesn’t exist on Retail it’s because Retail never gave a poop about immersion, world logics and dense decisions.
(Outland added almost-limitless flight because it was Outland, then when putting flight back on Azeroth for Cataclysm they kept this feature and used it as a marketing argument to be able to “fly to the moon!!!” I guess.)

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I dont have much faith that anything will be added or changed; but ideal in my view would be something like this:
No class or level changes, no dual spec. Still some changes/ additions introduced through items.

New bg (Aszhara); say a 20v20 flag capture bg.
Old AV version turned either optional (to queue seppeartly) or seasonal/ av weekend = old av.

2 factions added with the new bg, with a new bg marks ect.
New rep gear rewards, tuned like midish AQ 40 but higher in stamina.
BG rep also adds a engineering pattern: nature reflector trinket.

  • new alchemy pattern (better rejuv pot/ anti caster version of lip/fap ect)
    New upgraded unique pvp trinkets; unique (1) +20 stam, 40ap or 20 sp trinkets on use that counters any effect on a 6m cd.

PvP system tweaked ever so slightly
-If pvp inactive all RP decay is halted for up to two weeks.
-Gear pices tweaked and tuned up slightly; spec spesific alternatives available; more on par with AQ 40 yet still under naxx power level - weaponds remains more or less the same, but are brought more on par with eachother (eq hunter weps gets a big boost).

Skrims added (as in pre patch), with mmr and a ladder that resets monthly but no related currency. No related gear/ faction, and if anything only like a tabbard reward for high/ top placement.

Regular zone pvp events.
Say 5 over the weekend, 2-3 hours duration each.
Hillsbrad, Stv, Searing gorge, Silithus, brm
-capped number of participants to 500 v 500 (any more than that a second, third ect layer is opened up for them).
-Any inzone dungeon or raid closes for the duration of the event. And turns into resource nodes/ spawn points instead.

  • 3x honor in the zone.
  • Marks for winning, skulls for killing and scraps for looting.
    Mix of scraps/ skulls -> trade in for pvp consumes to keep it relevant forever.
    100k skulls 40 marks -> turn in to begin working on a class spesific quest:

Something along these lines:
Locks: wand; masters lash, on use: kill pet for 10% casting speed and 30% hp and mana over 12s.
Priest: wand with high stamina/armor: 3k armor on use (self or target).
Mages: multishot wand, on use: increase area of effect spell range by 50% (idk lol)
Warriors: thrown wep (with on use: essentially heroic throw)
Rogues: increased stealth level and on use ranged slow that doesnt break stealth.
Shaman/druid/paladin: 3 in 1 totems/idols/librams for each spec with opimized effects. (Boomy one might as an example have -1 to 0.5s cast speed on starfire/wrath; or stacking so each consequtive cast is 0.2s faster until a cap of 1s).
Hunters: polearm (with on use: dissengage - so pole vaulting) kekw.

Karazhan opens (every group needs an atiesh wielder to serve as the key).
-> Still 10 man, tuned pretty harsh.
Effectivly fuctions to naxx as naxx 10 (as in Aq 40s aq 20).
So generally slightly “weaker” items compared to naxx but new kara trinkets and items can still function as bis in slots, where no optimized item exists.

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They can spice classes by adding additional tomes such as tome of rebuke for paladins or mass dispel for priests from new 40 man raids locked behind class quests.

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I read an interesting post. In addition to new instances, raids and unlocked zones.

(Some of) the new raids could also drop gear that is tuned so that currently non-viable specs become as viable as the others. Imagine that Hyjal tree (I’ve never been there) zone opened, containing a 20 man and a 40 man raid and some instance or two. With the raids dropping sideway gear or slight upgrades for all…plus new-spec gear. Perhaps better yet …adding new spec-gear to ALL lvl 40+ instances. Could be super interesting.

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Basically they can add anything they added in Azeroth pre Cata or post Cata zones.
I would be interesting to go to Uldum as a lvl 60 zone with 10 man dungeons.

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