What if we go to a normal run and I change the difficulty at the last second and you do not notice its a M0?
1 Like
Well, now youâve told me about your secret plan.
I have more secret plans.
A good magician doesnât reveal their tricks⌠for free that is First one was a promo to peak your interest, the next one is going to cost you.
Got anymore of those secrets? Come on⌠Just one more.
Nuh-uh, do a +5 with me and I will tell some more.
Oh hell nah.
+5 pre-squish was already a stretch. +5 right now is nightmare fuel for me.
I only have 511 ilvl. Iâm a squishy lil hunter!
Anyway⌠It was fun having this talk. Iâm going to watch the last episode of The Acolyte now; see if the writing is still as horrible.
2 Likes
Nah 511 is more than enough for a +5, also I can keep Blessing of sacrifice on you and you wonât feel a thing.
I only watch reviews of that and it sounds hilarious XD.
Nuked a pvp raid getting 30+ killing blows with a massive aoe combo which turned a game that was gonna be lost in the next minute into a victory
1 Like
Not playing it to start with.
1 Like
Did they both really say that? 
Turns out no.
It was Ishayo that said both things.
Pretty sure Chess tournaments would disagree, there are definitely winners.
News to me.
I just woke up so I might be rustier but I think he means it is impossible or at least incredibly difficult / close to impossible to beat Chess, not beat someone in a game of chess.
Perhaps a parallel of sorts can be drawn between beating WoW, which obviously in the case of MMORPGs means setting personal goals (our own win condition) vs having an advantage over someone else. One is more like the PvE version, other PvP.
The field is colourful already. But it is another circle in a newly created topic so searching for older posts is burdensome. Would prefer to keep the discussion concentrated to one place because there are many great posts there and people really took their time sharing their views.
Or we can drive this to even greater heights 
Hmm⌠I think I lost my desire to try to âwinâ World of Warcraft a few years ago when I finally looted the Ashes of AlâAr after almost 15 years of trying on and off to get my âFerrariâ that I never managed to get in TBC despite seeing it drop a few times.
It was like 4 am and I was on the very last alt that could solo it, I actually didn´t even register it dropped at first, and when I did it wasn´t the "Omfg! "nerdrage moment i had imagined for years, but almost felt more like a boring chore that I had just pushed off for forever was finally completed, no real elation or happiness⌠was kinda wierdâŚ
And somehow, that flipped a switch, and I lost most of my interest in being truly competitive. I only play to have fun with friends now, I have 2 guilds that I raid with, one with a RL friend as a GM that generally needs a whole season to clear HC and sometimes doesn´t quite make it.
And another where just about everone is more or less on my level and we all take raiding reasonably seriously (everyone always signed up on time, appears enchanted, rarely did someone forget flasks or food and if they did someone has their back), but have no serious aspirations beyond HC and a few mythic bosses. But I think we could probably realistically clear mythic if we actually put ourselves behind it and could get a stable 20 man comp togetherâŚ
And for me, playing with these 2 groups, laughing and ragging on each other when someone has a muppet moment even when it causes a wipe, celebrating when something dies, joking about the warrior now being a rangeDD because he looted a gun for mog⌠Yeah, that´s as close to winning WoW as anyone will ever get in my book. 
1 Like
What does that even mean? Both chess and poker have very clear win and lose conditions. Sure there are rounds, but you can win those rounds, in chess its âbest of X roundsâ wins the game and in poker is whoever gets all the chips/money. The only things that come close to this in WoW are PvP and pet battles.
Again you guys are stretching. You can apply âyou can always play another oneâ to literally any game in existence (well maybe not to russian roulette) and say itâs âopen endedâ.
1 Like
For me, I win when I enjoy logging on. Iâve really felt that a lot during DF.
I started back up mid Legion after having stopped when Wrath came out, I just lvled alts, spoke in guild chat and did random BGs not caring one bit about rating, rio, ilvl etc.
BFA I had a guild which I started raiding with, that was fun and I enjoyed logging in for those sessions, but they slowly progressed towards being a more âseriousâ guild, which put me off⌠Then my win condition became seeing if I could account cap with max lvl alts and farming mountsâŚ
Then came SL⌠The expansion I played fully, but didnât really feel I won anything⌠I achieved new things for sure⌠Got my first KSM, my first ever duelist, but everything felt so grindy, âOh so you just lvled an alt? hehe good luck fighting a fully stacked dudeââŚ
I didnât think Dragonflight would hit as hard as it did for me, thought I was going to push for the usual duelist in 2s and KSM and then just run around the worldâŚ
But to my surprise, during S1 I found a super cool dude in 2s, introduced me to his friend, and suddenly I had two people to play withâŚ
During one of my +15 runs in S3 i found a premade who joined my key, and their healer just quit⌠So they took me in and I hit 3k rio for the first time everâŚ
So what Iâm trying to get at is, for me winning has changed a lot, but getting the achievements, getting the score has never made me enjoy the game as much as the friendships Iâve gotten, wiping to a stupid mistake while everyone is laughing in Discord⌠that is now my win condition.
And from time to time, when I meet friendly people in LFG, I try to see if I can throw them a friend request ^^
2 Likes
First, I do not represent Ishayo so I do not know what he had in mind, so please do not lump every different opinion together and refer to us as âyou guysâ. We might agree with him on some aspects but we certainly do disagree on some others as well. Same goes for everybody else.
Second, in what I laid out, an individual game of chess is not the same as the entire game of chess (of which all the individual games of chess consist of). In tournaments, players win by outscoring opponents over multiple rounds, and the winner is clear. But the idea of âbeatingâ or âwinningâ chess as a whole means discovering a perfect strategy that guarantees a win each and every time. That is where I feel the distinction is and I think(!) Ishayo meant that so I offered my input.