Convoke the spirits

Community General Discussion
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Convoke from stealth doesn’t work with a stealth partner because the opponents will be immediatley on high alert as soon as someone destealths. It works far better with a team mate whom can demand people’s attention and focus which means the druid will be harder to notice when they pop from stealth.

In a sub/boom combo it’s predictable, as soon as the rogue appears the first question is “where is the druid?” because they will destealth at the same time which simply means trinket + CC on them as well as the rogue (assign partner).

If the druid is partnering with say an arms warrior, that warrior is going to get in your face. Now a bad druid will probably try for convoke immediatley, which is a bad play. A good druid will probably wait until the opposing team is going for a burst on their warrior because they’ll begin to tunnel, which means convoke will either stop their tunnel or kill them before they can complete it.

it’s the same with fire mages, fire mages whom combust burst at the first engage first second are much easier to deal with than those who don’t.

This is my experience at least. I partner with a WW and vs sub/boom the default tac is CS targ trinkets and he’ll RoP their location, now the rogue can’t do diddly whilst i will go for an immediate blind/HoJ on the druid and this usually works because we know they will open at the same time and they’re both burst oriented classes that rely on a specific telegraph move. A boomkin works better with partners that don’t have telegraphed play or if they do, at least has a reliable way to stop the enemy immediatley focusing on them by staggering the burst rather than doing it at exactly the same time.

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Errr I said any classes that can burst that bad need looking at and actually spoke of several in my post, so not sure where this “call me up when you have nerfs for them” is about? I don’t work for blizzard, i ain’t nerfing nothing. Convoke is but one of many.

Yeah, blinding light, so the druid is in 10 yds of me? Same for HoJ? This is what I mean, not all druids are stupid enough to open convoke on me so close, they’ll do so from max range. The act of summoning my charger and chasing the druid (assuming i’ve not been snared) to get these on them takes more than a second at the very least, assuming my partner has used his CCs on the initial target.

I never said it was impossible to counter convoke, I said the punishment for failing to counter it early is too high. I’m totally fine with it killing you in 4 secs. I’m not fine with it killing you in 2 which is entirely possible (that’s 6 spellcasts from the druid).

But just so you actually understand as well, i also think several other classes need a similar look (because apparently we’re not allowed to point out imbalance of one class without engaging in whataboutism about other classes despite the thread not being about them, w/e) but yes Fire Mages need a massive look (I’ve said this in several threads I believe they’re the most busted class in pvp atm as it goes), rets combination of dps/healing whilst immune needs looking at. WW burst + sustain together needs looking at. Prot healing needs looking at. Certain shaman setups need looking at (Chain Harvest for half your health followed by wtf burst isn’t fun), rogues, maybe some tuning but tbh I don’t seem them as a big of a deal as the others but maybe that’s just our comp, so i won’t say more.

So yeah, it’s not just druids for me, but given this topic is about druids, i’ll talk about druids and make it clear once again. I think Convoke needs some tuning. It should be powerful if you let a lot of it get through. It should kill you if you don’t stop it. It should not be able to kill people if you channel less than half of it, which is currently can, which is the problem. “React in 1.5 secs and make sure you’re in a position to follow up to do so whether you’re ranged or melee” is not an acceptable counter to an ability that can guarantee your death. Especially when that time is dependent upon several factors beyond you (such as enemies and their positioning and whether you’re rooted) - as said with the rogue the only thing that determines whether i eat their burst or not is whether I the player press my trinket quick enough. That is a personal skill factor. If the boomkin and their partner set up a situation where I myself cannot do what is required to kick them (ie get in melee and kick/CC them) it should not be the case that the punishment is death and my personal ability to respond to the situation is removed. That is incredibly bad design.

Now you can argue “well you should never find yourself in that situation in the first place” but you have to understand what you are asking there. SOme of these things (like snares) I can mitigate sure, but i can’t al lthe time. There are cooldowns. So if the argument then becomes “well save them for when boomkin pops so u aren’t snared” you have to realise you are now asking for (because of one ability I might add):

  • Conduct the whole fight cautiously and keep an eye out for boom
  • Hold my cleanses and freedom for when he pops out, irrespective of whether I need them otherwise
  • Save my CCs for the boomkin
  • Try to avoid being put in a “trap” position where the boomkin can have LoS on 40yds of me.
  • Try to avoid being immobilised to avoid solar beam, but do not cleanse immobilises until the boomkin comes out because I may need them to gapclose him.
  • do not split up from my partner so convoke spreads over us, regardless sof whether splitting on their other partner is a good idea or not.

Don’t you think this is an awful lot of stuff I have to consciously maintain to stop one ability killing me within 2 secs? I happen to think it’s a bit too much. Mage novas me, risk of solar beam, I freedom it to stop this. Druid waits, mage kites, freedom gone, mage polys, druid roots into solar beam, BOOM.
Or I don’t freedom the nova, so the druid solar beams me anyway, so now I can’t freedom it, BOOM.

Fine if i’m eating the whole thing, fact is even the 1.5 secs the druid will get on me whilst breaking their own root and moving out of the silence range is enough to get me dead or near death unless druid gets crap rng. It’s just bad design.

Now I know that I myself have DS, so i’d probably use that, which means my ally will now eat lots of convoke! Also it may save me, what about anyone else? “Use an ability that makes you immune to everything” is not an acceptable counter to a spell in such a situation, it just isn’t because only a few classes can do it. Let’s say i’m a priest and not a paladin and the same situation with the solar beam root into convoke unfolds, i’m just expected to die because I lack DS to cast once i leave the silence? How is that fair for priests?

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Yes because what happens here is otherwise we all QQ about that boomie convoke, they nerf it, boomie is now useless in Arena and every boomie is going feral.
Then comes the feral QQ and now feral is uselss and everyone goes resto.
Then ppl QQ feral and boomie is to weak.

Did you not hear all the chanting on nerfing rogues and hunters at launch?
When it wasn’t even the classes issue, but their covenant and the trinket from a previous expansion.

These witchhunts are bad for the game. Either we point out flaws of many classes or you leave the classes alone imo.
Because this is not a case of convoke being the only OP, so why would you complain on specifically convoke? If you get an interrupt or cc out, it’s prob the worst burst of them all, since its pop and he dies or you’re screwed.

I will unfortunately not respond to your wall about druids, because i disagree with this entire post, already disagreed with OP multiple times.
Im not going on a witchhunt on 1 class, when i know, that if you nerf convoke you kill the class in arena, thats it. Tho i will add, MAYBE it will still be ok in 3s, but its for sure dead in 2s. Ppl will just reroll to feral if the boomie variant sucks, this will solve NOTHING.

Ye it’s alot to keep track of. Thats why im not a 2k+ player, im 1400 atm.
Thats why your pala is also around 1300. We prob just don’t play as good or the correct comps to win against these. It’s not like all the damn boomies are stopping us from getting to 2k. I rarely even see boomies. Mostly rogue + mage.

It’s not like ppl go “ah finally, no boomie, i can chill, i don’t have to pay attention.”
The attention span you need and awareness you need and timing cds, cc etc against a boomie, is the same against all comps.
And tbf unless we both speak from 2k+ experience, it’s not like we know how actual pro boomies would play, like Supatease.

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Actually proper rogues / hunters can still 100-0 in 3s or less. If you get cought out of trinket CD / defensive CD you’re done. And that is after the nerfbat.

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Problem is much bigger. Power of all classes and specs are encapsulated within that 2-3 minute cooldowns allowing them to be godlike for few seconds then be complete non-threat. I’d remove all major cds from game or nerf them to at most 10% increase to damage.

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