With the upcoming venthyr and necrolord buffs for covenant abilities to hunter. Will any of you be switching covenant? Interested in peoples thoughts (mainly looking at pvp but pve’ers welcome! 
Unless they give a free switch (renown/buildings/adventurers) then no i have invested too much into nf.
Nf will also probablly still be top in m+ atleast and kyrian in pvp. Nerco/venthyr might not become better just closer.
Well I’m glad they’re buffing venthyr because it was severly lacking, not sure why they nerfed it in the mean time though ( removing focus means it won’t scale with our mastery) but overall the buff is neat.
I made a quick mathematical series to see how death chakrams buff will impact its overall damage and it’s really not bad either!
I don’t know which log they’re using for secondary stats diminishing returns so it’s hard to predict it all (looking at mastery and haste for flayed shot, death chakrams isn’t impacted by any other stat than agi which is just linear so fairly easy) so I used a classic base exponent but they’re probably use another base. Anyway the results for flayed shot are good, venthyr is looking to be best ST overall. Gonna try to see how it scales if both mastery and haste were to modify it, maybe it would scale way too high.
Regardless, vampire and metalheads rejoice!
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Cries in corner
Anyway, I’m not Venthyr but I was planning on lvling an SV alt there. Seems a bit better now, despite that “nerf”.
Just did the maths quickly, granted we can raise haste and mastery both above 32%, scaling with flayed shot accelerates way too quickly so I suppose they did that to prevent going from one end ( bad) to another ( Uber broken). Results might change based on how they calculate DR as said in my previous post, but that’s how it goes for base exponent log.
Anyway just threw it in there so that people can decide also on numbers, it looks good. Gotta get back to real work now 
Hopefully none are good enough to be worth switching. Which is what it looks like thankfully. Nothing will ever topple Fae and Kyrian without MASSIVE over-tuning due to the nature of the effects, the actual soulbinds for those two are massively superior too.
They should only be buffing them to be not a complete meme at this point, for the people who already chose them. They designed a restrictive system and now we’re too far in to be expecting people to be swapping covenants.
DC is still pretty atrocious for MM.
It scales with crit/mastery/vers for MM just like any other ability. Unless you mean BM/SV mastery, in which case it would still scale with crit/vers.
Of course it does but it’s “constant” multipliers ( in the sense that they just add value to the numbers without interacting with each other, as mastery and haste do in dot and procs). Didn’t bother include them as it’s pretty straightforward.
I’ll do the maths for scaling with MM mastery later tonight, my bad still used to old sniper training that scaled with focus spending abilities only sorry. For Death chakram since you don’t have any dot/proc tied to it you just add mastery% again and you good (really it’s linear, the only thing we’d need to know is how blizzard calculates DR)
No need to try and complicate it or ‘calculate’ anything. Death Chakrams scales with crit/vers/mastery obviously. Flayed shot will then also scale with crit/vers/mastery + partially haste. Simcraft will literally do all of this as soon as spell data gets updated and we can sim PTR. As for DR, all stats DR by 10% @ 30% of the stat. For mastery, the rating equivalent is used. But again, all of this is totally irrelevant.
There’s nothing complicated lol it’s literally sum and multiplications. I’m just trying to help you understand how the SIM engine you use without thinking function. But you do you, cheers
Uhh, thanks? But you suggesting Death Chakrams doesn’t scale with anything other than agility doesn’t offer much confidence in the math department.
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?I am finishing a maths master so you’ll understand that somebody who think multiplication is hard call me bad at maths COULD trigger me (and yes I am a nerd)
Anyway I genuinely thought you knew that pretty much everything scaled with versa and crit, and as such I apologize for my passive-agressive behaviour.
I did my best to remain polite and treat you as a respectful human being, I’ll appreciate you do the same and question yourself before making questionnable assumptions. Thank you.
I’m not calling it hard, i’m calling it irrelevant. Both necrolord + venthyr are still bad for MM with current changes.
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I see, it is indeed irrelevant, I just found it fun doing quick calculus to see how it scaled and share it, but I suppose it wasn’t fun for you (and perhaps everybody). Anyway this is past now.
On topic, I’ll just disagree on Flayed shot, the numbers it will bring are going to be good. I agree the randomness tied to it will make it hard to justify switching covenants, but it will be solid.
I appreciate your maths bro <3
And yeh the venthyr rng is alright, it’s kinda like how ele gets the insta lava burst procs, they feel great when they proc! It’s nice in pvp because your chunky damage is gonna be more unpredictable
thank you! your kind words brightens my day <3
I would jump at the chance of leaving NF.
The buffs are not enough.
Death Chakram deals less damage than a critting Arcane Shot. Buffing it by 15% doesn’t do much.
Death Chakram deals 300% AP dmg every 45 sec. IF it actually hits all 7 times - if you’re bouncing it between 2 targets and 1 dies, it will continue bouncing off of dead mob and that damage is lost.
Let’s compare it a bit. From what I’ve seen, Wild Spirits, on AoE, are perfectly capable of doing 50+ hits during the duration. Over 6 minutes (3x Wild Spirits, 8x Death Chakram):
DC: 8x300 = 2400% AP dmg over 6 minutes (or 2800% AP dmg after the “buff” they prepared for 9.0.5)
WS has an initial hit too, and assuming 5 targets and that you can use 10 abilities in the WS window
WS: 3x(5x25 + 50x38.5) = 6150% AP dmg over 6 minutes
Let’s try single target
WS: 3x(25 + 10x38.5) = 1230 % AP dmg over 6 minutes
keep in mind these are numbers are BEFORE Spirit Attunement conduit which further increase Wild Spirits damage by 10+%
In Single Target, Wild Spirits lose out (assuming 10 abilities per WS, but that’s probably too pesimistic. Even MM hits more than 10 shots in 15 (18) seconds, and BM even has pets hitting so they dish out even more with it)
Niya is also totally superior to Heirmir in every way (less being said about the other Necrolord soulbinds, the better). So you get worthless soulbinds and sub-par abilities. YAY
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It’s not supposed to make then better/competitive with Fae. It’s to make people who already chose them a little happier. That’s exactly the correct decision on Blizz’s part; they can’t afford to mess with the meta now, it’s too late.
Some people conceeded theme for power, others power for theme. You knew what you were getting into as soon as you locked it in.
Yeah, they could still be a little stronger but you’ve just proven it yourself, Chakrams does have a niche over WS on single target now. So there’s actually no issue at all. If that niche isn’t good for certain content, that’s a different matter entirely.
You HAVE to be Kyrian to PVP on hunter. Fae hunters have conceded the ability to play PVP, it’s not actually as simple as WILD SPIRITS BEST. It’s just “Wild Spirits’ niche is the most applicable to most PVE content”.
This change should put chakrams ahead of WS on 2 target cleave too.
(Your breakdown on wild spirits is wrong btw; MM does more damage in WS because the whole ability is affected by their mastery. For BM WS is only about 1k more DPS than Kyrian. For MM it’s over 2k better.)
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It doesn’t though, chakrams is still MILES behind.
Likewise, it doesn’t. Death chakrams doesn’t even scale with targets like WS does. There are a million things not accounted for when people try and ‘calculate’ WS damage (MM version is buffed, mastery, niya buff, PI, bloodlust, trinkets, conduit, aimed shot proccing it twice, DT aimed proccing it three times, DC eating more globals, DC focus regen, list goes on…)
Which is why we sim things that take all of this into account.
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