Greetings all. With the question of gatekeeping rising once again, I thought it would be an opportune time bring up a question of mine.
Does crossfaction RP in faction specific zones make sense to you?
Personally, I can’t say that it does. With some fringe cases aside (such as espionage, criminal activities etc.) I can’t wrap my head around why a character aligned with the Horde should be casually hanging out in Alliance territory or vice versa. I can appreciate the fact that creating a neutral hub is much easier said than done but with the frequency I am seeing this I just can’t help but think that there is now a considerable amount of people thay can benefit from this.
I’m interested to hear from you all and see if we can arrive at some form of a consensus (or not lol).
How dare they, the full might of the Seventh Legion should have descended upon them as soon as they stepped foot on Alliance territory. It’s kill-on-sight time, even if they claim neutrality, etcetera.
Who cares? It’s not like the Horde was even using that zone in the first place, Horde roleplay is dead and Horde roleplayers should be grateful, just try and stop them if you don’t like it, etcetera.
The only race it makes sense for is goblins. After all, Bilgewater is but one cartel, and not the biggest one at that, so if you want to RP as a member of something else, especially in the wake of the Undermine, it should be possible logic-wise. But alas, we can’t even do as little as put ourselves on the same footing with the NPCs.
Depends on the zone and the context of the event. If you had, for sake of example, an orc shaman going to Elywnn forest to help remove a cursed relic from the First War, it could work with people vouching for them with the intention that they leave once the task is done.
But if the orc went there for a market, it wouldn’t work because there isn’t a reason for them to go to a place that people wouldn’t want Horde to be at, with unease or hostility still exisiting.
*EDIT
For hubs like cities, no.
Only goblins like the others said would work. Beyond that, there is no reason that I can think of for the opposite factions to be in hubs.
The extremely few exceptions we have seen are not the rule.
Remember when Thrall, who hasn’t lifted a finger against the Alliance since he passed the mantle of Warchief to Garry, visited the Alliance Roleplay hub of Stromgarde and almost died there despite Lord Admiral Archmage Mary Sue Proudmoore accompanying and vouching for him, just because Trollbane left the premises a day ago and left the place to his niece?
That doesn’t come across as a neutral-friendly or crossfaction-friendly sentiment. Of course we can start arguing that Marran Trollbane and her spymaster brainwashed and mind controlled everyone to be accessories for a really silly Trump allegory, but I think it’s healthier to assume that the populace were swayed because they have misgivings and an existing prejudice towards the Horde. People sticking to this mentality being present are validated by the short story.
Much like how the Warchiefs didn’t similarly mind control the entire Horde to commit warcrimes but there were plenty who were willing to do so anyway.
I think every SI:7 and patriotic Alliance roleplayer worth their salt can just call out any goblin presence as being Bilgewater cartel members but disguised as Steamwheedle/Blackwater/etc. representatives, but people don’t like to gatekeep market events from neutral peaceloving Roleplayers.
Which is fair, since if attendance numbers go up the organizers (whose wishes and agenda trump everyone else’s in every initiative) are happy. I just hope one day an enterprising Darkfuse Solutions roleplayer will smuggle in 4 barrels’ worth of sappers into Gilneas City and then flatten the market district because Warmonger Orcman hired them to do so.
This “”“paranoid”“” sentiment is also encouraged by the fact the ‘neutral’ races, though for some reason it mostly seems to be Dracthyr, partake in a lot of factionhopping now that other classes are unlocked so that they can attend every market/gathering event on both sides on the fence. Double points if they stand in the middle of Orgrimmar or Stormwind and keep preaching about how the ‘orc/human’ wars are silly and they will nope out of the faction they signed up with (which one? ) because they have to worry about the 5 little whelps they have.
Also re: the goblin argument - yeah most of the cartels are neutral, but I don’t think it’s that unreasonable to assume that they still wouldn’t be trusted that much specifically by Alliance characters. Goblins are by nature quite greedy and profit driven and their major enterprise is explosives and machines of murder, so especially your warmonger character will definitely have his eyebrows perked upon seeing a goblin in the middle of Stormwind. They’d probably think about what they’re trying to blow up and not if they’re part of one of the ‘neutral’ cartels. (That the Alliance doesn’t seem to care about anyway, do any of the troops even go help in the Undermine besides the Avengers Squad?)
Unfortunately we both know that most if not all attempts to spice up the market/gathering run of the mill events are shut down under the pretense that ‘you’re just trying to disrupt the RP’. Please enjoy your yakuza-styled karaoke bingo night experience and keep the hosts happy, thank you.
My main gripe is the use of the armistice as a catch-all excuse and somehow any hostility is now straight up outlawed.
There is also the shoe-horning of elven neutrality based on assumptions of Midnight lore. The same models are available to both factions, why not just RP as the one already aligned with the faction who’s territory you want to play on?
Thankfully the little Stromgarde novel showed that all it takes is for the main characters to not be there for war to be brewing almost immediately. Just because the named main characters have found it in their hearts to forgive and forget, the nameless peasant and footmen are chomping at the bit to get back into war.
People aren’t doing this because they think it’s canon; they’re doing it because they want to roleplay their same character that would most likely make more sense if they had been made a human attending events across both sides, without switching around.
What form of consensus or agreement we unmerry few on the Argent Dawn forums arrive to does not matter. If they do not care for the opinions of the people running the events they attend to, I am not sure how anyone could ever maintain the illusion that they might somehow care that people on the forums disagree with their roleplay.
There is nothing to discuss that wouldn’t end in yet another thread where we talk in circles getting worked up over people that already know they aren’t doing anything that could ever possibly take part in Warcraft, with nothing else to show for it beyond a self-imposed headache.
The rise of ‘slice-of-life’ RP (as a substitute for meaningful real life activities and going outside) and the legitimization of “I pay, therefore I can do whatever I want in RP, as long as it hurts nobody” stance, has been a disaster for roleplay in both quality and cohesion. More news at 10.
No and it shouldn’t be happening in lore truthfully. But, people will do what they want whether we like it or not unfortunately.
As of current; We’re under Armistice and because of examples of Leaders being the penultimate friendship group that leaves a lot of people to think that it’s a full Peace treaty rather than just a Ceasefire and Armistice.
Though people, have strayed alot from using lore as a source and have instead begun using WoW as a platform for their RP.
There is plenty of unclaimed faction leagues and regions but people don’t seem to like using them I genuinely feel if these more neutral gatherings where held on the fringes of society or even just in the Neutral Trade hubs (i.e. Ratchet, Booty Bay) it would be a lot easier and make sense to the point where some of my gmembers would be willing to show up and partake to look about and shop.
Unfortunately, they’re not going to do that slap bang in the middle of enemy territory.
I feel like this is wholly on Blizzards fault though because they slackened so much of the faction tension for no reason (Thanks guys) that we’re now in a point where without that tension people will say "Why would or should our characters hate? "
People might go against me or try a slam dunk of some sort against that by saying “Well yeah but we was doing it anyway when there was a faction tension / conflict / etc”.
I find it falls into a point raised in the other topic and thats;
People would rather let anyone tag in for the sake of numbers and activity rather than actually try to control the flow of their event, group(s) etc.
Another point would be people just don’t want the drama, conflict or such and these people will go on to derail or include themselves anyways!
It’s a shame but it is what it is and you have to make do with what you can get curating your own space.
Separately; Neutrals don’t count because belonging to a sub-set or factionless is understandable but this is more against actual people claiming to be of Horde or /and Alliance.
That’s just the 3 expansion cycle of things on Argent Dawn re: faction conflict.
A “truce is settled” (whatever that means), the next expansion it is on its way of being torn up with small conflict breaking out here and there, the third is outright war, and then back to “a truce is settled”. We’re at the “being torn up” stage right now. Faction conflict is back on the menu next expansion, and then we loop around yet again.
That is very true which is why it twists it so much more by the arm when people seem to be so against the conflict, tensions etc.
I’ve seen people openly announce how “Horde bad, Alliance good” in middle of Orgrimmar.
As well as, some others saying they have “Good friends in the Alliance” and how they will always “Help them” and stuff it’s just baffling really because saying that in the middle of the Valley is definitely going to raise eyebrows to the point I swear it’s low-tier ragebait.
Regardless; I think it’s just a case of as Halfbrand said there will be another war I think especially with Metzen and a lot more fresher devs who cared about old warcraft it will happen inevitably.
Which is why you have to kinda take a backseat and ask why these people are in full support thinking it’s a lasting peace rather than an armistice for when the war inevitably starts up again.
Idk, People will do what they want as I said and there’s nothing you can really dispute to that with these people because they’re gonna do what they want to do anyways.
If you apply real world conflicts, politics and modern day standards to a WoW Fantasy based around wars and people trying to survive in a standoff then I’m more worried.
Real life should not apply to a game at all imho we should be following the setting.
This is the dream, but I sadly see Blizzard’s design decisions going against it. Their change in releasing expansions at a faster pace means they spend less time working on each of them.
Consequently a very big and noticeable cut on expenses and dev time is the homogenization of the questing, the narrative and the gameplay aspects between the Horde and the Alliance, which becomes rather hard if they are at war with each other, while the current status quo enables this. It also leads to simplifying other features such as making the second playable race in a row an effectively neutral party available to both factions and situated in the neutral hub both factions can utilize.
It does reduce a lot of what we may have enjoyed into grey mediocre sludge, but it is absolutely in line with how ActiBlizzard wants to churn out more content in less time than when they had to cater to the factions separately.
I mean, do you want a semi-believable attempt at a World setting, or a Themepark game where consistency and sense aren’t even paid lip-service, for the next new shiny?
As someone who cares about narrative, characters and will go on at length at Blizzard’s failing on both fronts multiple times, alongside their world building, the reluctance of some races and characters to engage in Eternal War is one of the few believable parts they have going for them, frankly.
“Why are people not wanting to fight?!” I mean, gee, I dunno, maybe because war is bad, actually?
Edit: And, before anyone twists my words, no I also don’t believe all past bad blood should be forgotten and races should Just Get Over It. But for goodness sake at least try and approach it with more depth and nuance than a puddle.
) because they have to worry about the 5 little whelps they have.
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