Bloodrose Datura in ZulâDrak. Fitting name if you ask me.
Its race change effect seemed random to me. I mostly transformed to a belf female, but rarely got a nelf female or belf male as well.
Lorewise, the Alliance and Horde needed every single hand against Arthas, and the Ebon Blade (to which DKâs belong to) had already proven their worth for turning against him at Lightâs Hope. Same story with DHâs, Maiev let loose her sworn enemy hoping he has a way to contain the Legion.
Both classes were added because of their knowledge of their enemy and their power to help turn the odds.
Yes of course. My point about them was, that the Nighthold mog effect works better with them than with gold and silver eyes, so it really looks as if the character has red eyes.
Hmmm. But about those that already exist? Donât you think they should be allowed to come back to their people, once Sylvanas is defeated and the manipulation of the Jailer revealed?
In Legion we see that the Dark Rangers work side by side with living Blood and Night lives in the Hunters hall.
Even if we can assume that many/all of them loved Sylvanas and answered directly to her, sheâs been gone a while now, so they may want to return to their people. Or do you think they should be outcasted, like the original Undead folks were which lead to the birth of their faction?
As for the matter of them being hunters only, thatâs a fair point, but I keep wondering why when Blizzard announced Night Warrior eyes for all night elves that feature was welcome, despite the fact that in the lore it only belonged to ONE character (Tyrande) of ONE class (Priest, High Priestess even!).
I mean heck, at least we know there were ânumbersâ of Dark Rangers in service.
And adding the customization to the Blood Elves rather than to the Undead is just a matter of logic, to avoid a duplicate.
Let me elaborate, taking the Death Knights as an example: they are also undead, and yet they are flagged with the original race name, and they have the same racial skills, too!
So a Dark Ranger could possibly work at its best as a special class.
However, we already have a Hunters class which includes them (Legion class hall) AND it would be annoying to have ANOTHER elf only class.
Which leaves us with the option to add a whole new race model to the Undead (unlikely, unless we want to give them models for all races) or just give the Blood Elves the customization shrugging off the class only coherency as it was already done with the Night Warrior eyes for the Night Elves, and the undead detail as it was already done with the Death Knights.
And also if you think of the amount of work involved to add a new race or a new class as a feature⌠I âd say âDark Rangerâ is either going to be a customization for the Blood Elves (and possibly Night Elves) or it just wonât happen.
Those that exist have never affiliated with QT. Theyâve always been amongst the forsaken. Why would that change? Why would they suddenly decide âletâs go homeâ and why would the belf suddenly want them back?
Not implausible, but these are some good questions that would need answering. QT is not built to accommodate the undead and the fact the citizens are very much apprehensive of anything undead (their peoples history, the dead scar being on their doorstep) tells me theyâd be very quick to question why the dark rangers canât continue residing in under city as opposed to coming back.
I mean Sylvanas herself, former ranger general, totally reinvented her identity. The blood elves never really asked for her to rejoin them, merely viewing her as an individual with âshared historyâ but a distinct thing in herself. The dark rangers would probably be treated the same, but I canât say for sure.
Of course, it would be best if Blizzard took the time to explain it!
Forgive me, however, for asking again: are Blood Elf Death Knights allowed in QT? Can they call it home? Or are they outcasts who cannot enter/live there because undead?
What I mean is, if the Blood Elves can welcome Death Knights (which are undead, and yet keep the same race flag and racial skills) into their ranks, I donât see why they should refuse a skilled Dark Ranger willing to do the same.
We didnât see it happen. But with Sylvanas gone⌠it COULD definitely happen⌠especially if they are willing to offer their skills to help defeat ZovaalâŚ
My point being, while explanations would be AWESOME, we should also keep in mind that when other customizations were added, there werenât complimentary explanations. I may be wrong of course, but I think there was no storyline explaining when exactly the Dark Trolls joined the Horde. As a matter of facts, I thought they were pretty much a dead subrace? As far as I knew only a single dark troll tribe existed, the Shadowtooth clan, and they were supposedly wiped out by the Twilightâs Hammer during that cultâs attack on Hyjal during the Cataclysm, with Speaker Ikânal being the sole survivor.
Again, you see, a SINGLE character being turned into a customization for an entire race of playable characters.
If Dark Trolls can be a thing all of a sudden after Ikânal⌠if Void Elves can be uncorrupted because Alleria, letting people assume whatever heritage they like⌠if all Night Elves of all classes can have Night Warrior eyes even though there is only ONE Night Warrior and it is actually the High Priestess of Elune⌠it feels to me as it there are little real obstacles against the idea of a Dark Ranger simply âreturning to their peopleâ once Sylvanas is gone.
But sure. Explanations rather than assumptions would make it a million times better.
P.S. EDITING (sorry!)
How about, The Undercity was⌠destroyed? I mean, after all it is gone and the players cannot enter it any more (at least in the current storyline). Would that possibly work as one of many reasons?
Ahhh, but in the lore the DKs are foremost affiliated with the Knights of the Ebon Blade, and only associate with their factions as proxies. They are in a way âdiplomatsâ of the Knights whom are extended diplomacy by the factions but nothing remotely like being considered âfull and homed citizensâ of their respective races. The fact you see basically none (I actually think it is none) death knight NPCs in the capitols attests to this, instead death knights are forced to utilise their class services (trainers, rune forges) through Acherus rather than the capitol cities accommodating them.
So whilst in game, the NPCs may allow you death knight safe passage in Quelâthalas and Silvermoon, and consider you part of the Horde, in the lore such a blood elf death knight is actually a Knight of the Ebon Blade first and foremost, and thatâs who you answer to, and the Horde are allies of the Knights, whom allow you sanctuary in their lands, but you are not considered a âcitizen of the hordeâ in the same sense as say the other naturalised races.
Itâs the same for Demon Hunters and the Illidari.
So itâd be the same for dark rangers IMO. First and foremost their loyalty is to Undercity and QT considers them allies of sorts whom happen to share heritage with the belf, but that does not mean QT considers them âtheir peopleâ.
I think this perception goes both ways as well, as to whether dark rangers (and death knights and demon hunters) have a desire to reunite with their old cities and people? Based on the evidence presented in game, it seems most if not all of them primarily identify with their âadopted peopleâ and have no desire to reunify with their old ones, which makes a lot of sense. Weâre talking about people whom are fundamentally considered outcasts or monsters to the âaverage citizenâ of these races. We just remember that just because Anduin is cool with a half-decomposed human death knight, or Lorâthemar gives a hand wave to a belf demon Hunter, it doesnât mean the average citizens of these cities would react positively or with understanding to these âmonstrousâ allies. Which they probably know, which is why they tend to keep to their âown kindâ (and the fact their adopted people service their needs and understand them infinitely better).
Regarding undercitys destruction, yes, that creates an issue. Nonetheless I donât see why that would prompt the belf to âtake inâ and attempt to reidentify with the dark rangers when the forsaken have already been offered sanctuary in Orgrimmar. Youâre talking about a race that doesnât need food or oxygen or warmth, so itâs not like they âneedâ (or even care) about having houses. If that makes sense? Theyâre safe in Orgrimmar so thatâs all that is needed really.
To be clear this is more me arguing that Iâd see it as âmore convolutedâ to have dark rangers âbe a belf thingâ when itâs perfectly plausible to just maintain the status quo and keep them as a forsaken thing. Everything already points to this.
What belf need is more customisations that actually focus on their racial themes (arcane, light) not for their theme to be pushed in a totally strange direction âto keep them different from Velfâ (ie by suddenly making them have a totally different attitude to undead).
I understand the temptation to have dark ranger customisations to keep belf distinct from Velf, but to me itâs a poor solution to the issue. The issue is the belf ânicheâ is being farmed out to another race without their niche being explored in other ways. The solution is to explore unique ways to build upon those niches (and to push their unique one: light) not to give them a completely new niche that doesnât sit totally smoothly with the lore.
But I still think itâs important to consider that mechanically speaking, even though the lore states otherwise, both Death Knights and Demon Hunters maintain their original faction and racial flag/skills, so they can be still considered special customizations of the original race.
As said before, seen what happened before, having Dark Rangers as class would seem the best option⌠but⌠I just donât see that happening. Not when we already have an elf-only hero class.
So I guess this is where we must agree to disagree. Because while I think I get what you mean, I still feel that it can be argued that lore and game structure / mechanics canât always match for a 100%.
Lore-wise⌠sure, it is more convoluted.
Technically speaking⌠it actually is much easier and convenient to add two pale skins and an eye color to an existing race than to create a whole new class based on another we already have and which actually IS what the Dark Rangers are about, as seen from the Legion class hall.
And I shall add that indeed, we have already seen how for the sake of gameplay mechanics Blizzard has no problems implementing for a certain faction/race elements that do not âreallyâ belong to them even if they have no NPCs in town. (Death Knights - I should actually check, but I will take your word for now).
Yes, I am actually reversing your concerns into a support point. Donât hate me! But I canât shake the feeling that what was done before, can be done again.
Oh, but I have wanted to play a Dark Ranger long before Void Elves were created! I just like the looks and edginess of them. I also have an undead huntress, mind you⌠but even with the fresher flesh and red eyes, she still does not look as cool.
Personal considerations aside, however, further customization is ALWAYS a good thing, whatever it is. In fact, for what concerns further Blood Elf customization, I actually started a collection thread here:
To be honest at this point I am not really sure what could be done with the Light for them. Sure, the Light and the Sunwell are what made Blood Elves take their current appearances to start with, and be able to train paladins. But that process took thousands of years and was already completed? I donât think many changes can be expected in the short years passed since the restoration of the Sunwell. In my opinion further Light-related customization would be entirely new and require a special event explained by the lore, even more than the Dark Rangers (which at least already exist).
Also, sadly enough, not even the Light would not be an original theme for them⌠since there are the Lightforged Draenei.
But you seem to know your lore (better than me, too) so youâre very welcome to post your thoughts on further Blood Elf customization over there if anything comes to mind.
I thought it was up to the player to use that bit of common sense to realise that Death Knights are indeed, undead.
I mean, their is a small scenario of Human Cultists raising up the races of the Horde and Alliance, into undeath. Some are âWhere am I? Why am I here?â Whilst others are like âReady to serve!â
Dark Ranger Velonara makes it clear that sheâs basically a rotting corpse, by the point of Legion and her heart no longer beats.
Yes but then they retain their racial, again if they are indeed undead then they should theoretically have the forsaken racial. Current forsaken do not share the human racial even though thats what they are undead humans.
But thats besides the point people are being too obsessive about the name at their character and race, to be honest if it was up to me then forsaken would have a blood elf model baked into their character creation but they dont and its very unlikely blizzard would go to the hassle of that. The alternative is the comprimise of the red eyes and skin options, all of which already exist as you can view on the wowhead dressing room (check npc options).
Look at void elves, they have been given by all intents and purposes the ability to look exactly like a high elf. I just think people are being difficult for the sake of it, at the end of the day its another fun option that could and should be made available for players (in my opinion of course)
Death Knights and Dark Rangers are that 50% split between undead and their core race. Look at when Delaryn died and when she was raised. The Valâkyr itself said: âRise, in the name of Sylvanas, the Banshee Queen!â
No matter what - they are still undead, in some way or form.
Well they wouldnât because itâs a waste of Blizzardâs time. The Forsaken, at large, are mainly the former Human residents of Lordaeron.
High Elves were scarce throughout the land since they basically left the Alliance of Lordaeron after the 2nd War.
Because while I think I get what you mean, I still feel that it can be argued that lore and game structure / mechanics canât always match for a 100%.
