in the current season: tank has NO DMG, we have threat issues, and we MUST rely on healer in many occasions. While being slaughtered by adds, I must fight for every single inch of threat, while being responsible for route, leading etc.
The only answer is:
give tanks more threat, give them MORE damage, and give them more survivability so they are NOT dependant on healer. s1 was horrendous (absolute nightmare for average tank), but even in s2 its not where it should be. its like u play perfectly as tank rotating defensive, but simply u need externals and a healer that understands tank busters. we DONT WANT to be dependant on healers.
NOONE enjoys if there is no TANKS, literally no one, so the best blizzard can do is make the ROLE important and powerful, there is SOO Much responsibility already, so why everything else must be super hard.
i don’t blame new players not wanting to go tanking, they cant hold threat, they are squishy, and responsible for everything, so at LEAST fix the first two.
I am 100% certain that it would bring more players into the role. some of my friends who tank in classic are SCARED to tank in retail because its so difficult.
anything that can be done to convince more people to tank should be done.
for example dps and tanking gear should be virutually the same , why? there is tank shortage in dungeons but there is no tank shortage in raids ( difference in tank:dps ratio in both).
so a dps should be able to simple change spec and tank in m+ while play dps in raids.
IMO. If this actually gets more people into tanking, I am all in to make tanks inmortal gods. And make their threat automatic and impossible to remove unless killed.
Their level of immortality should be the following. In low keys and outside tank busters, if they press zero defensives they can still survive with the help of the healer no issues. In high keys they die. If they do press their minor DR defensives and play the tank, they should be completely independent from anyone. Including in high keys.
As for doing more damage, I am against that. Right now they do roughly 50% of a DDs damage. And I think its a good level to be at. More than that and you will begin seeing 5 tank parties.
Well… they should stay away from tanking completely. Cause I agree with making tanks immortal as long as they can focus on the other parts of tanking: Routes, packs, ect…
And you gotta have to “guts” to lead a team in the dungeon. So your friends cant suddenly be “scared” to execute a proper route.
No. I just want a basic press W route. Routing is one of the major reasons for not getting into tanking. And with this basic route you can just say you follow the basic route. So everyone knows what is getting pulled. It doesnt need to be optimal. We can leave that route up to the imagination of the community.
Nice suggestion. But I want a button to toggle that off.
Because I dont usually care what the route is. I just follow the tank. And one more green thing on my screen is a bit too much stuff to pay attention to.
Very difficult to tell. I wish Blizzard could make a big poll or questionnaire to find out.
I love tanking. I love everything about it. I like to be first one to charge in, I like to balance my resources for offensive and defensive plays, I like to feel unkillable, I like to impress healers.
Not sure what is not to like in tanking. That’s my problem I guess.
I hear a lot of reasons coming from DPS players who argue they won’t be able to tank or heal effectively because of low x main stat. But it really isn’t problematic. Would I love it if DPS, Healer, Tank stat were closer/the same? hell yes, it’d mean I get to enjoy my experience more on a personal level.
… But also that’s nitpicking. That’s my dream, ideal scenario.
Certainly there are comfortable thresholds to reach for, but I feel that’s more a DPS and Healer issue thing where I have personally come across ( Spriest and haste/mastery as an example) but certainly I’ve not seen it in Tanking.
It’s not like you’re suddenly gonna become the immovable juggernaught just because you have 1% more Vers…
and in this mentality lies the problem of why (new) players don’t want to tank, and this is especially true for m+. Now imagine the other 3 people in your group act the same as you do - just follow the tank. They devoid themselves instantly of all responsibility even if they don’t have to. Here is what is unreasonably expected by the community from a tank compared to what is not from a DPS or healer in a m+ group because “just follow the tank”:
Know the dungeon layout
Have mythic dungeon tools and know how to work it
Have a route that is optimized with regards to mob percentages, pull sizes, bloodlust timings and other important things
Know every ability of trash mobs, every dangerous ability that needs to be interrupted and every dangerous ability that could kill you or make you lose threat, endangering your group members
Same goes for boss enemies
Know how to optimally position enemies with regards to frontals, AOEs on the ground, kiting, LOSing, and group composition (melees/ranges)
the list of things DPS and healers don’t have to care about because of a “just follow the tank” mentality goes on…
…and now people wonder why players refrain from tanking in a random group with 4 unknown players.
You are a bit disingenuous here. And when I said “follow the tank” its not what you think it means.
I have to care about all that too you know? What mobs do fat AoE, which ones do dangerous frontals (to move out of the danger zone), ect… Same goes for DDs. They need to know the pull size in advance to manage their CDs, know what to kick and what not… ect…
That is why usually, tanks say what route they will follow (more or less) at the beginning. And of course, you can object and do propose something else. But 99% of the time in PuGs that route is the “meta route” decided by someone in Keystone Guru that everyone has done 100s of times. So everyone agrees.
So its not just “follow the tank”. That is a mistake. The 1st pack of workshop for example is a prime example. The tank might want to do everything in 1 go, but the DDs might object. And they DO. Because they understand the risk (basically all the list above) and prefer a safer route.
Concluding remarks: Following the tank dosent mean let the tank do everything. It means the tank pulls stuff first and sets the pace according to what HE can survive. And this is logical.
I got other things to deal with. Like people’s HP bars. Same applies to DDs to their responsibilities.
So saying that people dump all this “work” to the tank is simply not true. That list you posted? Its what EVERYONE has to do. Each with its own thing. And if someone does not, its when wipes start to happen.
And I might add that it’s people like you that make it seem like everything is in the shoulders of the tank. When its not.
I am not “disingenuous” at all. Everything I stated I meant. I speak from tanking experience, everything I said is true as I experienced it exactly so. DPS and healers most of the time have a “just follow the tank” mentality as you said, and it’s true. The responsibility is shoved by 4 player onto one, hence why the blame is shoved onto the “responsible player” as well if something goes wrong. Based on this, it’s not difficult to understand why fewer people want to play tank in a pug environment with unknown players compared to DPS or healer that can just “tag along”.
This is not true in my experience when tanking. The tank can survive much more than the group can, hence why most pulls, especially in a pug environment, are done with specifically group survivability in mind; therefore “according to what [they] can survive” is wrong in my experience. What I listed are specific things the tank has to know 100% of the time during the whole key, in addition to the things DPS and healers have to deal with. Not without reason is tanking the most demanding job in a dungeon before DPS and healers.
When you want to start tanking on +2 nobody knows meta routes (i mean, i have no clue either and i am playing +13 keys).
And nobody agrees. Everyone expects something else. When you do the wall skip in ML people complain or cant do it, when you are not doing it people also complain. You can’t do right.
We need something for routing to get into M+. Ingame.
I agree with you. I have never used any keystone guru “meta” route or something, and usually you have to constantly adapt a route to pug groups anyway because talking from experience, “meta” routes are often too difficult for the average pug group.
My main reason as a tank for no longer going into dungeons was actually my experiences on an alt healer.
I got blamed and kick threatened one too many times because DPSers who didn’t move out of insta kill mechanics died.
Honestly, how strong I feel as a tank barely has anything to do with it for me, right now I’m doing solo delves in which tanks feel super strong, but neither that nor the promise of 15 gilded crests for doing a measly +2 is convincing me to give it another chance.