Delete deplete of key

By doing 15 sec per death they are doing a bad about their casual community while focusing on their Hardcore Esport athletes.

I’m not denying, that, what you say, could happen, but no, as a tank it’d benefit me a lot, because I find groups in 5 seconds for M+. I only leave groups, if people start arguing in chat about non-sense, or if the group is overwhelmed hard by the key. So, for my personal experience it would be an enrichment.

Now, for dps players I also disagree with you on the overall experience:
At least it is more likely now that they are given a chance, because without deplete, people won’t be as picky anymore too.

So I think the evil behaviour, depletes try to prevent, are not really worth their downsides. It also helps premades limit-test pulls, which is nice for the competitive practicing of very good players, while it also benefits friend-, community-, or guild-groups very much I think, because then they can attempt keys with less skilled friends without getting punished as much for a failure.

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Delete deplete is a huge improvement for premade, you can run over and over, practicing until the key is timed. That’s how we should play on WoW, finding people we like and play together. Not only pugging

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So it would benefit the people who chose to do M+ the humane way

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How?

People could just form their own groups and not restart. That’s what I would do.

I’d never complain about not getting in groups because I’d always be in one and I’d never complain about the leader restarting because I’d be the leader and I just wouldn’t restart.

If it’s as you say and absolutely everyone in the universe would just restart over and over as their life passes by until they die, it would benfit me most. I’d be the only tank in the entire world who didn’t restart constantly and everyone would want join my groups.

I’d be on the forums bragging, not complaining.

instead, on this huge thread about M+ i proposed keystone charges, which may be more fair

This is already happening, but just with extra steps.

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So makimg it happen even more is a solution how?

Its happening, since atm one group wipe on +9 or +10 enough to fail the key. Its mostly balance issue. Final crest upgrade only start drop at +9 is a bad design. You can reach i lvl 619 with +4 farm and then trade up one upgrade each week (lol).

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I think that groups disbanding and starting over and keys depleting should be treated as two separate problems.

The former stems from the players, the later stems from game design.

There will always be people who be cucumbers but unforgiving conditions make it more likely that more people will be cucumbers

Very good comment from this video

“I was always flabergasted how the reward system is so binary, either go up or go down, but why not a third possibility of leaving the key at the same level, so if you complete the key in time you get +3…1 depending on the time, but once you’re over the time but still complete the key you stay at the same level but still get normal rewards, only when you’re unable to finish the key it would actually deplete. This way you don’t get the problem of, hey we can just spam this dungeon as much as we want, since you have to complete the key to not drop it, but there’s still reason to finish the key even if its not in time”
@funkenjoyer

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and then you get a random boss after that kill :smiley:

Keys going down is a relic of the past.

Before the NPC existed to lower your key when you want, there was a risk you’d get a key you couldn’t complete. So they fixed it by lowering the key level by 1.

As the NPC exists to choose to lower your key now, it’s pointless.

That said, it’s still better than the original “depleted key” where the name comes from, in that failing a key actually depleted it, and you had to time it (not just run it again) for no loot to get it back.

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Creating more disbands really isn’t the solution IMO. I stay in pug keys to the end providing it’s viable to carry on. Sometimes you will hit a roadblock but most dungeons you can still complete even if it’s overtime. But making it so pugs now have even less chance of completing wont be good for the general playerbase. It’s not some magic fix it’s just adding more issues.

There will be no incentive for keyholders or participants to stay. For pugging it’s more hell. For groups of friends that play together, it’s great. We can just say nah we fluffed it, everyone out lets go again. Or we can be sick of trying and just finish over time.

What’s the problem with leaving a key that’s already doomed? In fact, if you could retry keys at the same difficulty chances are people would stay in the party, because if a key is ruined for 1 bad pull there is no reason to disband, just try again.

I just did a +7 SV, they were a premade of 4 and key went well until a bad pull at the end ruined the timer, unlucky ducky, but I wouldn’t mind trying again if I had the chance.

Problem is if key is depleted it goes down to 6 and then nobody wants to retry because of crappy loot.

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I do not understand what is hard about the concept that creating more leaving/disbanding is worse for the player base as a whole because getting a key to depletion without someone leaving or the keyholder kicking/disbanding is going to be even harder.

I am so relieved that I mostly play with a group of friends because pugs are such an unknown quantity. Pugging with a friend today, so many time wasters leaving after bickering with others or people not doing their role well messing up then leaving the key. Not all pugs are terrible and some will stick with it to the bitter end regardless especially for the trinket dropping dungeons.

Anyhow this is suggested regularly and so far Blizz have declined to consider it an option. Who knows what can happen in the future.

This is the part that you don’t get, removing key depletion does not create more leaving/disbanding situations, in fact it’s the opposite, here’s why:

You most likely heard of League of Legends, I don’t know if you’ve ever played it but you surely heard about the toxicity in there. The main reason for such toxic environment is because you are literally stuck with your teammates for at least 20-30 minutes no matter what, even if the game is lost or somebody is intentionally griefing you have to stay or else you get banned.

The utopic idea of “fighting until the end with your lovely teammates” doesn’t work in online games, that is the reality, from there as an enterprise you have two choices:

  1. Make a system that makes people want to finish the content regardless.

  2. Make the system not be overly punishing.

IMO nº2 is the way to go because of the reasons I said on my previous post.

While I agree that these things cause issues, these are mechanics integral to the experience of doing M+ combat. M+ would essentially become a different game mode with these removed. It would probably be still fun, but it would feel quite different to the current M+ experience.

However key depletion can be removed without changing how M+ combat feels because it’s not a mechanic that directly interacts with it. All it does is punish the key owner for failure, and those failures are often entirely out of their control.

Key depletion is the source of a huge amount of toxicity. It is why there is so much vitriol directed at those who leave groups, and makes players feel forced to strictly follow the meta in the hope to dramatically reduce the risk of key depletion. This of course results in many specs essentially being ostracised from the M+ community - and this is an enormous problem. And it’s extremely evident in this season with shaman being very disproportionately favoured over the healers.

Time wasted on a failure is punishment enough already. All that key depletion does is add salt to a wound, and salt to the community. It needs to go.

I mean, it’s pretty obvious and logical, that there are gonna be abusers, who will kick dps after the first couple of pulls, and restart, if they are not happy with the perfomance. Let’s be honest: Many players of wow just behave like this, and treat people similar to NPCs in follower dungeons. Puny is right in this sense, but homestly, maybe it’s a good thing to completely destroy the pugging scene as it is currently, and see, if people are gonna swap to communities or guilds instead.

The way I see it now, maybe Blizzard should make pugging even more miserable, so as many people as possible try to find guilds/communities/friends to do M+ with.

I can’t say that removing key depletion malus would increase/decrease group disband.
The only thing that is sure is that is way less frustrating for the owner to know that he can still try the same level with another group in case of failing.

I think that the time lost is enough as a risk especially for people like me that cannot invest so much of it.