(deleted post, character limit)
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I agree ret palis are so underpowered and they keep nerfing us. It’s only because i’m a professional that i can top dps but the average player will suck. Also the damage i do has been nerfed by 50% at least since launch
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i would of said pala’s aoe is tuned pretty high right now, there pure single target seems a little low but still decent enough. they just needed a slight tune down on the aoe as it was pretty strong
No if we get our aoe our st should get buffed. Main ret pali and then we’ll talk
When it comes to PvP I totally agree that the aoe dmg is perfectly fine rn, even tho I still need to try out herald today after the 15% nerf.
The single target dmg is a bit weak in comparison to many other classes but never had any issue until now to compete or top the dmg in PvE.
Out of curiousity, what do you define as professional player tho?
Echo raider, or maybe Whazz? 
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So, Metzen hops back in the driver’s seat, and suddenly we’re blessed with Paly nerfs and more Green Jesus—though he’s mostly lurking in the background. Meanwhile, Shamans get a buff so massive that every spec is now A to S tier. Giga utility, giga damage… yeah, something fishy’s going on here. 
We are in the second week of the season and today started M+ and Mythic Raid, after race to world first is over they will anyways “tune” everything again.
I would not worry so much rn. 
Metzen started selling boosts on his Shaman? (I am joking of course) 
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I think the biggest issue for rets outside of the current tuning is this intent by blizzard to keep rets… simple. We have basically no skill check mechanic, no real way to min-max output. We did have one back in SL, where getting the burst rotation right was a major boost in damage, but it was removed via tier sets and talent changes.
What we need is not only some more abilities, like a closer, slow, etc. But we really need some kind of skill check mechanic to manage. To deal with. Really, we need a bit of another ground up class overhaul. (we’ve barely changed in 10 years)
Templar Strikes is probably the most interesting ability we’ve gotten in that time.
why dont you try to read it again? i said pro not which type of content so Yourself
Thats why I asked what YOU define as pro, since you said you are one? 
I think the whole reason why ret is such a popular spec is because of that exact reason.
I’m sick to death of all these classes needing WA’s and other various third party crap to understand what you need to be pressing. Or a massive visual on my screen to tell me I need to press something else now I’ve got a random RNG buff proc.
Class complexity doesn’t always equate to fun. But that’s just my opinion.
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If you’ve read what i said you’d know
Ok I know enough! 
I agree with this, a simpler rotation means more time to use your utility, and deal with mechanics more effectively.
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There is a balancing act. but Id rather have some complexity than none.
Explain to me what complexity to you is, and how you would make them complex. Without just adding a chore to the class. Right now it feels buttery smooth, rotation wise. And we’re not lacking in terms of identity and visuals. We’re the epitome of a holy warrior architype.
Also as Richard said, I really like having more of a forgiving rotation because it allows us to spend more time looking out for using our utility. But each to their own I guess. Ret, and paladin as a whole has never, ever been complex, and I think it’s perfectly okay to have specs like that in an MMORPG.
to each their own I guess
I meant the rotation and such.
I was in a bad place yestoday.
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