I can see where they are coming from. If we fail a raid boss we just reset and go again, or die and go again. We don’t have a limited number of tries on a boss before getting kicked out and having to start again from the start of the raid.
Same with M+, we just get up and pick up where we left off for. We may not make the timer but we aren’t having to start over. We keep going, providing everyone wants to carry on. I can probably find that incredibly ill fated run back in BfA with a healer who exaggerated his skills, something like 128 deaths xD
We don’t but if we wipe on phase 3 of fyrakk we don’t get to start again from the end of phase 2. Meanwhile in a delve you get to do that 5 times before you have to start from the beginning.
I actual want to see proper changes to delves first, before i can react about the death limit. want it to be fun, avoiding mechanics stuff.
And not putting all my heals and defenses because of the auto attack of the villains.
If they do that, then it can be tested properly, and then we can react to the death limit.
And like i said before, it seems some raiders are angry because their is a way for ‘‘casuals’’ to earn good gear. They where already complaining when delves where first announced. If that’s the problem then an easy fix can be to make delve gear have a higher ilvl when doing world content, and delves (like how they do with pvp)
Tier 9-11 can be pretty much those challenge mode people want, and maybe the give cosmetic rewards to it.
But keep 4-8 for the ‘‘casuals’’.
Again; I don’t think comparing 1 boss fight with an entire delve is fair in any way, shape or form.
What if there’s bosses in a delve that have multiple phases in their fight?
How does your comparison shape up then?
Having to redo the stuff that came before ‘whatever you wiped 5 times on’, doesn’t ‘do’ anything except antagonize. It’s not fun and it doesn’t serve any real goal (unless the goal is to antagonize people doing Delves; in which case, the devs should really get a clue).
I’ve gotta be honest I don’t recall much complaining from raiders, if anything the response has been “Cool, not for me, but cool”. I’ve been excited for and remain excited for delves since the bginning because content like this absolutely should exist and I don’t need to be the audience for it. It does however need to adhere to the structures the rest of the game’s endgame pillars follow.
I’m sorry but I don’t really see that as a like for like comparison.
This is a full reset of the instance. Not just a boss fight. Whatever they are fighting when they die in a Delv is still there when they ress.
But I really don’t see the two sides seeing it the same. I very much empathise with the casuals in this instance. I think it’s all well and good for players who are used to M+ or raiding.
I really feel that you just keep moving the goalposts just to serve your arguments.
It’s a bad change. It’s not a fun experience for most of the people that Delves are aimed at. It doesn’t serve a purpose other than to waste time. And it’s also unlike any other punishment in any of the other endgame pillars. So it just feels like a bad call.
And we all know the devs make plenty of those.
They need to hear this and reverse this bad decision. There’s still time.
i doubt the devs read, eu forums.
But i’m dissapointed that they don’t even say what they change each new build of the beta. if they did they could explain why they changed the idea of death limit.
The other issue with this is: By and large the target audience for this endgame pillar are not people who post on forums or social media about this game and issues they have with it. They’re mostly people who just play and don’t let their voices be heard most of the time.
And so a change like this could creep through because most of the voices being heard will be those of people like in this thread; those that like the change because they’re a completely different type of gamer.
And that’s incredibly annoying. People who this endgame is NOT aimed at, will likely ruin it for the people who it IS aimed at.
But it is based on a comparison that holds no water.
Like with what I asked you earlier; what if Delves have bosses or events with multiple phases? Then your comparison falls apart and you just bring up ‘but what about the rewards’.
It’s a different system. This is not apples for apples.
You’re trying to compare apples to oranges by painting the apples orange.
I’m tired of this discussion honestly.
Neither of us will change their mind.
So… Thanks, but I’ve had enough.
I just want you to understand that people like you are incredibly destructive to what this new endgame pillar was supposed to be. Your opinion has no place in this entire discussion, honestly. But these are the forums and so you get a say. But you really shouldn’t.
That’s like me advocating for changes to mythic raids that benefit me.
It’s not a system meant for a player like me, so I don’t do that.
I wish others would show the same courtesy.
It is ridiculous that you have imagined that something is “for you” and not “for us.” All I have heard so far is that it is content that I can do solo. And if he drops gear like in other endgame activities, it should be just as difficult. How can something not be for me when I like the changes.
Easy. WoW is a multiplayer game, and if you play badly in endgame content you are effectively wasting other people’s time. WoW has been too easy on the low end of group content for too long, it’s time they start ramping up the challenge. You are free to be bad on your own, but once you get into a group with other people that didn’t consent to carry you, you are kind of expected to perform at a certain level.
I am not talking about playing a class, I am talking about playing the game. The game at the bottom to mid tier of group content does not require players to use interrupts, CC, get out of the fire or even play dungeon mechanics. And I have been fairly outspoken in favour of ramping up dungeon difficulty for quite some time now. So obviously I am also for putting some limitations onto delves. It should not be possible for people to fail towards success.
It’s telling that you do not see a difference between “menial tasks” and “overcoming a challenge”. If you simply want to be rewarded for logging in, there are multiple mobile games that offer that. But, as stated above, WoW at its core is still a multiplayer game where you are expected to perform at a level somewhat appropriate for the content you are doing. If “low end players” do not strive improve, they should not have access to high end rewards. As I’ve already said, it devalues high end content. If facerolling your way to victory earns you the same rewards there is no reason to put work into challenging content.
Also, I am not a high end player. More like “kind of average-ish”.
Ultimately it’s pointless to argue with people who think rewards should just be handed out freely rather than worked towards.
I’d imagine it is, WoW still is a classic style holy trinity RPG. Classes haven’t been designed with solo play in mind, and with a lot of specs it really shows
I didn’t imagine anything. Do I have to link the video again where Ion literally says it?
You know what? Look for it yourself. I posted it in this thread already. Have fun.
That’s not the point.
Enticing for one thing is bad, but enticing for another is fine.
THAT is the point. And it’s incredibly hypocritical.
Only in your mind. That’s fine.
Ultimately it’s pointless to argue with people who think that just because they play a game a certain way, that that is the only right way to play.