They were not combat oriented, probably highly narrative driven, wow is first and foremost pve mmorpg with focus on it’s combat system.
i can enjoy something like the journey or other “walking simulator” narrative experience because it’s made this way in mind, wow never was it, wow always placed challenges before you, but it also had difficulties for people that don’t want challenges, that’s why you’ll always have diffuculty where you oneshot mobs and don’t recieve damage from mobs.
Since when you asssumed that delves meant only for casuals? that sounds like
because many people see in delves return of brawlers guild and mage towers, pretty challenging experience, i very much look forward to higher difficulties for delves
This is of course based upon your opinion. There has been no data/survey given out to every single World of Warcraft player in the World, correct?
I’ll extend an olive branch. If the death limitation are a bad idea, more people will speak out, once they have got into the expansion, once it’s released in 2 months and they will voice their concerns. It could be removed or a higher cap on deaths, based upon the data, which the developers will have access too.
How about if there was an option to say to give people who do no not want to do a rule based Delve is giving the option of a “simple Delve”, where you will only get basic normal dungeon gear.
There has to be a limit on risk vs rewards. You don’t want to be giving everything top tier quality items for doing nothing. You have your weekly quest currently, which provided you with some things to obtain good items, but you do have to be active and participation in those activities.
Would you agree that there should be a limit on what kind of gear you should receive from completing a “simple” Delve compared to a “Death Limited” Delve?
I am NOT against delves being challenging (at later levels when they reward appropriate gear).
I AM against a punishment put in place that does NOTHING to add to the difficulty.
All it does is make it annoying because you have to re-do stuff you already successfully did, all over again just to get to the point where you were already. That’s not fun. THAT is what this is about. Fun.
And you wouldn’t get that. Because you have a different mindset for this game.
You are not someone delves are supposed to be aimed at (no, that doesn’t mean you can’t do them and/or enjoy them).
Think of it this way:
What is mythic raids, who are designed for players who want the toughest challenge, right? They want to be able to show off their skill by finishing this hard content, right? Because they like the challenge, right?
So, what if Blizzard made a change to mythic raids. What if now, you could earn a ‘boss ticket’? This ticket would randomly drop in a bag from World Quests. With this ticket you can cash it in and get a free boss kill of a boss in the mythic raid.
Because Blizzard, in all their wisdom, decides to give the most casual anti-challenge type of player a chance to also kill a mythic raid boss.
Do you think Mythic raiders would like such a change? The players that the content was made for, catered to. Do you think they’d like that?
That’s sort of what’s happening here, but in reverse. Content is being made for a particular type of player, but an element is being added that has no place there with that type of player in mind; instead it is liked by an entirely different type of player.
THAT is what I have an issue with.
Not with the difficulty.
Now, I’ve said this before, but I’ll repeat it: I am not against this change if it was only for level 9-13. It fits better with those levels, since those are prestige levels; made for the people who want to ‘show off their skills’ and ‘have a really hard challenge’.
If I’m to be perfectly honest, this system will be changed/altered.
But I highly doubt it’s as bad as you’re making it out to be. If you die due to a mistake, then you learn from that mistake and move forward. If you continue dying because you’re just bad, then that’s a personal/skill issue, not the system working against you.
I don’t mean you as you Tah, but those in general who also may not like this system.
Not an assumption. LITERALLY what Ion said at the presentation.
But, to be clear: I didn’t say ‘meant only for’, I said ‘made for’. Anyone can do them that is interested of course. Just like ‘technically’ anyone can participate in mythic raids, if you’re interested.
You should never take a developers’ word as gospel and fact. Things change from the moment the expansion is announced up until multiple seasons into an expansion.
Right now this is something they’re playing with, but this could be changed prior to the expansion going live. Just wait and see, if it’s there, give it a try and see if you end up getting killed and where/who/why.
Provide your feedback, once you have tried it out, and not basing your feedback off feelings/emotions.
Sure but something as basic as ‘the target audience’ for a particular feature sounds like something that shouldn’t change. Imagine them announcing a super hard new pvp mode and then all of a sudden, after many months, them going: Just kidding, it’s now a pve mode for players who like pet battles.
Certain things shouldn’t change. This is definitely one of them.
Of course they’re going to itterate on the system; but their basic core design idea should remain intact: Creating an endgame progression system with solo and world content players in mind.
Oh, I know. And I hope it WILL change.
But until then I am going to make my stance on this extremely clear. Because this must not make it to live, as far as I am concerned.
I’ve played games long enough to know how I feel about things. I’ve played WoW long enough to know how I feel about things in this game. I do not like this change. I do not want this change.
I don’t have to try and eat a piece of concrete to know that I will not enjoy it.
Sure. But then, isn’t the dying and dying over and over and not being able to progress punishment enough in and of itself?
Why does this extra layer of punishment need to be there?
As far as I’m concerned: It doesn’t.
You are a heroic raider. You have a completely different scale of what you find challenging. Again: Delves weren’t made for players like you.
They already do! That’s what I’ve been explaining in multiple replies!!
It. Does. Not. Add. Anything. To. This. System. Except. For. Annoyance.
I doubt this is worth discussing with you, if you can’t grasp that very simple notion.
You do heroic raids.
You are not the intended target audience for delves. Fact.
Nobody said ‘casual’. Solo and world content players. Those are the terms Ion used. Those are the types of players Delves are made for. A way for those kinds of players to finally, after 19 years, have endgame progression that is designed specifically with them in mind.
And you just earned yourself a flag. Also: I am now immediately done talking to you.
your attitude is really awful, i’m a rude person but atleast i tried to be polie for the first time, until you started accuse me.
tldr cope and seethe you takes are worthless bye
Are you for real?
Did you not hear the words coming out of his mouth?
I… I find it very hard to remain civil when you bring things like this to the table.
Dying isn’t the issue. I have no problem with being able to die.
Nowhere in this thread have I stated otherwise.
What I have an issue with is ‘an additional punishment for dying 5 times in the form of having to re-do the entire delve’.
That additional punishment does not fit the whole idea of ‘an extension of the open world’, which is what they want delves to feel like. So… When you die, you release and run back to your corpse - infering the usual ‘spawning cooldown’ and repair costs. You know, the regular punishment mechanic you get for dying.
And then of course you’ll have to ‘try whatever you were doing’ again, hopefully this time having learned from your mistakes. Why isn’t that enough?
No. Because if you keep dying, you won’t progress, will you?
You’re essentially ‘stuck’ at whatever makes you die and die and die.
You’ll have to learn how to not die or give up or continue bashing your head into a brick wall.
I do think this was aimed at the casual player, the entire push was to give open world players something to do, they cite the events in the open world and giving them more to do.
It feels like we’re listening to different things. I heard what he said and what then happened in game is a reflection of that philosophy.
What you heard and what are happening are completely different. The logical conclusion is you’re hearing what you want to hear.
Change your attitude then. Consider it “bonus time to rethink your approach” because what you were doing clearly wasn’t working. These are things that are meant to last 15 min, its not like you’ve sunk hours into it only to be heartbreakingly denied at the last hurdle. It’s not like you need to farm a currency to try again or work a key up. Just go again. The horror!
They also cite endgame progression pillar. And last I checked when world mobs kill you repeatedly they don’t drop sympathy loot.
I’m not going to change Tah’s view. We’re both entrenched. But I’ll give my feedback to which counters theirs. I think its a good change.
I disagree. The goalposts haven’t moved from that video that Tah linked.
They have a broad vision which he articulated. Later comes the detail. I don’t see the detail (you can’t die infinitely) being inconsistent with the vision.
If there is “progression” there are broadly 3 ways you can fail.
Fail to kill whatever it is you’re trying to kill
What you’re trying to kill kills you
You run out of time
Most games don’t give you infinite tries, I’m not sure why wow continuing this is a source of outrage.
