I do have to smile, open world players are casuals. They are the people that do WQs and Events. These are the same people that are demonised frequently (not by you) for not doing harder content, not raiding, not doing m plus etc. Yes this is to give them something to progress through, something they can keep going back to. With a wide variety to boot.
Once it hit testing there was various feedback, many questions about rewards and would it be worth it for M+ players/Raiders etc. Others wanted more of a challenge etc. There is nothing wrong with this in principle. Where someone may raid high end, another has access to LFR. With the revamp M plus starts at a harder level now but there is still Normal/Heroic/M0 (I appreciate some have struggled with M0 post change).
Now it could be that they always wanted to put limitations in, or it could be as a result trying to make it more challenging to appeal to a wider audience. I’m disappointed, I am dreading it ending up like Torghast where something that was great fun on testing gets turned into a boring snorefest.
So if those do open world content are no longer classed as casual. What on earth is a casual in wow. If the most basic level of content isn’t the measure any longer. I’m really confused by where this discussion has gone.
I was really curious how people felt about limitations being added, rather than the debate it turned into.
Yes, and what’s wrong with there being features in game that players who are not good at game can do.
We aren’t asking for the entire game to be easy mode. We don’t mind that M+ exists. We don’t mind that Arena exists. We don’t mind that Mythic (or even Heroic) Raiding exists.
But is it asking too much that there is a feature that players with less skill (for a lot of reasons) to be able to engage with?
I’ve consulted gaming industry experts, lawyers, IT consultants and business analysts and they all confirm that it is not against ToS to be bad at games.
There are a lot of reasons why players can be bad at games and being lazy, stupid and horrible are not among them.
It timers and death limits are only applied at higher difficulties then that’s reasonable.
If level 1 has infinite lives and level 2 had 10 lives and level 5 have 8 lives and level 8 has 3 lives then perhaps this is ok.
What I’ve seen about Delves has pretty much decided me that I’m not playing TWW.
Currently I’m pondering on if my current sub time is my last or if I’ll do another renewal for 6 months to complete some outstanding achievements and mog collecting.
My worry is that the people testing it and giving feedback are more challenge-oriented than your average open world player. They are listening to the wrong crowd, in effect. I hope that when it goes live, if it is still too hard or too obnoxious (hard death limit), there will be enough of an outcry that they change it. I fear, however, that the very people it was intended for (solos and open world players) will just be disappointed and not bother. I’d also like to see a hard death limit imposed on all group content, please.
I’ve had this worry for a while. Dragon Riding started me worrying about the direction of the game. Moving to a more Action based gameplay rather than traditional RPG gameplay. Plunderstorm was also on this trajectory.
Yeah I don’t have any qualms about this not being content for me, I’d just expect some attempt at parity when it comes to difficulty relative to other content that offers the same rewards. Especially if those rewards include tier 3 crests which they Absolutely should at level 8.
Well they tripled the death impact on the timer in M+, and if the group wipes on a raid boss the boss resets and you try again. Seems things are already pretty similar.
I guess this comes down to how big a Delve is.
If I spend 20 minutes getting to a tricky point and then have to start again then it’s not engaging content for my playstyle. I’ll give up on that whole feature.
If the whole thing is 5 minutes long then ok I guess, I might do those 3 minutes again to get to the tricky bit.
Like 10-15 minutes max, I was kinda trying to move cuz I wanted to get to the next one without the server crashing so I was doing the earlier ones in 7. The reason I’m comparing singular raid bosses to whole delves is twofold, the total time they take and the fact a delve from a loot perspective is considered a singular thing. You clear it you get stuff at the end.
So I’m gonna have to side with what seems to be the minority here and say, if this endgame presents you with rewards comparible to that of heroic raiding as well as vault slots, it needs to have a distinguishable difficulty.
Otherwise if it was no chance of failure then why would you not exclusively play this, we would run into another mythic+ issue where iif you wanted gear it would be this or trolling for higher lvl players.
And I’m aware that their target audience is people who don’t have time to do stuff like mythic+ or raids, but in exactly that sentence you cant forget, the only thing they are changing is time. To my knowledge they never said this was for casuals, it was simply a new solo open world endgame content, that’s it, people just heard open world and assumed it to be for casuals.
And imo they have fullfilled on their part, the target audience no longer have to search for a team or a group of people to raid with, they can do it on their time, which was the whole point.
All in all, I think for the players whould play it as intended anyways this wont really be an issue but I suppose for some it will, either way I hope it’s a fair amount, the mechanic itself doesn’t bother me, what might is if tat number is a bit too low practically with the possible mechanics in the delve.
I havent tried delves, havent bothered looking into beta as i dont want too much spoiled. But something taking 10-15 mins tops for you could probably take alot longer for others that are far from your skill level i would think?
Thus I differentiate with “content casual” and “time casual”.
Separately:
Honestly I do not need heroic gear. I am fine with the cap we have. Getting just a couple of pieces of heroic gear with stuff we can upgrade it with would be nice but I do not want to do the whole gear rush in a different setting tbh.
When I was doing them bran was so undertuned he may as well not have existed, so I was tanking as an undergeared priest. If I didn’t have to worry about melee hits chunking me and had some actual help from brann it’d have been faster. Not to mention I was way under blizzard’s recommended ilvl by the time I got level 5-6.
Lets hope they tune it correctly then. Cause alot of players will be there with their undergeared priests and not have your skills and reaction time to make up for it.
My expectation going in was bran was going to be doing the tanking. I sincerely hope that’ll be the case when these things go live because face tanking mobs as a clothie is rarely if ever fun. Torghast as a priest was slow and miserable compared to most melees.
I really need to stress I don’t want delves to be hard for me, I just want them to be as hard as the things that also offer the rewards they provide already. I hope blizzard genuinely flesh this content out into something a solo / world content minded player can find everything group content provides those who enjoy that. Progression, adventure, stakes, accomplishments, good quality loot, and in the later stages some degree of prestige, but again all of that tuned around the expected ilvls delves provide.
Several friends who play at a casual level are daunted by the pressure of a death limit. I do understand that. It’s like Blizzard doesn’t quite understand the audience they originally aimed this at.
I think it would have been kinder to keep this at a more casual level. I would have been there regardless for the cosmetics
