Delves. Solo player perspective

I am a solo player and I love challenging solo content. Currently completed most of the delves in T8, some on T9 T10 and T11.

Wanted to share some experience and feedback. I play only warlock, so it’s mainly from warlock perspective, but there are general notes as well. Haven’t tried them in a group, but heard that hotfixes made group play really hard. Even though I’m a solo player, I don’t like this change. I was a raider once and being forced in solo dungeon content to stay competitive is not fun, especially if you are playing a healer. Let raid players enjoy raids without struggling with our solo player content. If anything, I would prefer if there was some boe recipe, pet or transmog drop in delves so solo players could ah it and earn some money. Putting good gear there does not look fun for group players.

Long story short: delves are possible to do solo, but I don’t like it. Now a bit more on what’s goind inside them.

  1. Encounters.

Overall, all delves are pretty similar. There are some clickable objectives, some packs of mobs, heralds, sometimes ambushes and usually boss in the end. You can get some powerups, but they are pretty meh. Many high tiers setups require to use unconventional tactics (like click the objective + use invise pot), evade-kiting of packs, safespotting, this is not fun and looks like glitch-abusing, not like an achievment.

a. Mobs
The balance looks really strange. Melee attacks are alright, you can even facetank some telegraph slams, but casters will send you to Gnomegalla in a second. In every delve there are some casters and usually they hit way harder than elites and boss. Technically, you can skip most of them, but sometimes it’s really time consuming. I don’t understand what is the design here, solo player could not be expected to kick/avoid all the casts on short cd. Fortunately, most of the mobs can be controlled, so warlock can use fear as an interrupt. Most of the packs can be sepparated, not sure if it is intended, usually I didn’t bother, but ex. if a mob is feared and he ran away, you can usually engage the pack and he will not join the pack even when fear ends.

b. Ambushes
Ambushes may be a bit rough, but you can just run away from them and engage them at your own pace, not sure if it is intended.

c. Heralds
Heralds are tough, especially Tala/Velo team. Unless there is some hidden mechanic I didn’t found I believe they are tuned incorrectly. They are immune to crowndcontrol and can kill you in a single cast on higher tiers, this cast has no cd and the only way of approach is to burst mage in a single kick cd. As usual, casters are deadly, melee is ok. Fortunately usually you can skip them and as far as I saw so you get nothing for killing them. Even if they guard an objective you can click it (or zerg it if it’s a mob) and evade the encounter. Or just die and accept -1 life loss, we have 3 in T11.

d. Bosses
Bosses are different, but overall I saw a couple bosses with interesting mechanics (adds you need to targe, aoe you need to run away from, etc). They are fun and I like them. There are some bosses who spam aoe attacks and sometimes do a weak melee hit. I don’t think it’s intendend, but neither pets nor Brann recieve any damage from aoe. These are really boring fights when pet/Brann tanks and you slowly kill them with 0 risk involved. And there are Ab’enar and Waxface. These are bosses with a lot of unavoidable aoe damage and they are not fun. I can burst them in T8 but I don’t see the tools to deal with them and I don’t want to approach them in higher tiers. I assume that class performance on this bosses wary a lot, with decent selfheal or big burst damage they are trivial, otherwise they are unkillable. Don’t like the design.

e. Powerups
Most of them do not look too impactful, so I usually don’t bother. There are some nice one like shield or bonus hp, which may be useful if you struggle with a boss, but they are pretty rare and overall it does not look like looting is worth your time. Some of the rares guarding upgrades are way harder than bosses, so it’s hard to justify it.

Overall design look strange. While you are delving it feels like you are doing group content solo, so you constantly need to cheese it a bit (casts which looks like they are designed to be interrupted on 6 second cd, insane unavoidable damage without heal/tank in a group).

  1. Gameloop.
    So, what we gain from delves? We gain Brann experience and gear and some other loot. Currently all of the systems don’t look good.

a. Brann
Brann gets experience only from bountifull delve past lvl15. It would be an ok method to timegate levelling (even though I don’t see any reason to timegate him, you can’t take him out of the delve, anyway and delves are close to zero gold per hour, so getting advantage to farm them more efficiently will not break anything), but we can reset bountiful delves. This leads to a weird and unfun optimal way of Brann progression: clean the delve / reset, rinse and repeat. I tried it once and looks like it works ok. I think that either this loop should be somehow fixed, or Brann should be allowed to gain level in normal delves as well, as I told earlier, I see no reason why timegating is needed here. If we are talking about Brann on his own, not about levelling, he looks ok. Personally I like healing potion mechanic of healer Brann as it leaves to player decision when to use the heal without making it overpowered, but I heared that many don’t like it. Dps Brann is a beast and pretty often you want him if you need healig as well. Damage prevented is damage which is not needed to be healed and he interrupts ok (unfortunately, as expected he interrupts first cast on sight, not a scary one).

b. Gear.
Gear progression feels bad. Fist week with two crafts is enough to get full 603. Upgrade material for Champion/Hero track gear you get from delves can’t be farmed there. After you got your 603 you can only hope for treasure map drops or vault-rulet, which is not fun. It does not look as a gameplay-loop to me, even if you don’t do any other form of content to outgear it (I do not), it’s hard to justify your time there after week 1 when you got your full 603. I had feeling that there is a bias toward heavy versatility gear in delves, but it may be observation bias. If it is true, it is good, as versatility is needed in solo content, but usually is less desirable in group one (overall, gearing for versatility/leech makes them much easier, at least on warlock).

c. Other loot.
High tier delves (at least solo) are one of the least efficient activities you can do in the game. You will get more gold per hour farming goats outside of Dornogal.

Overall it’s really hard to find motivation to go there past week 1. It does not look good for a new endgame system.

  1. Bugs.
    Unfortunately there are many. Nerubian web can be hidden under terrain and it still summons spiders when you stand on it. At least once I was in delve and it was not working at all (there were no progress for web burning when you burned it). I had to do T9 twice, because my first run, for some reason, didn’t give me an achievment, even though I finished it with max life. Monsters sometimes evade on plane sight in underwater delves (I haven’t kited them and engaged in position, still sometimes you need multiple pulls to finally engage them). Air totem disappears from time to time (you pick it, go away and after some steps it teleports back to pickup location). Air totem before Waxface spawned ~ 50% of the time (I don’t think it is intended).

This, more or less, summarizes my experience from three days of delving. I like the concept, but don’t like execution at the moment at all.

4 Likes

One thing that Blizz could do to even things out between solo and group Delves is make mob skills scale with the number of players, and i don’t mean the damage, but the number of them.

Those Nerubian spellcasters for instance, they constantly spam spells, and they have about four of them (Might be three, i’m usually too busy fighting them to take extensive notes), what if, for one player, they had just two spells, with longer cooldowns, and then scale the number of spells up (And CDs down) as more players (With interrupts/CC of their own) enter the equation?

That would reduce the amount of unavoidable damage for solo, and fairly scale up difficulty for groups.

2 Likes

I’m 100% agree on that. Good solo content is not a group content with numbers scaled down, it should be designed differently. Unfortunately, I afraid we will just see numbers reduced, but I hope for the best.

Ideally with casts a system like in some action games is needed when cooldowns are shared across all monsters in a pack.

4 Likes

While it is challenging and okish content,what frustrates me is the RNG of everything. I did some T8s without breaking a sweat at ilvl 588, in others I couldn’t even pass the first pack of mobs with all avoiding / CDs / interrupts.

Some mechanics are very bugged, like warrior reflect spell, died to a web bolt with 2 seconds left of my reflect. Mobs despawning, dwarven potions despawned, potions dropped in void zones becase Bran’s movement is stupid and the big nerubian Captain spawning so close between two existing mob packs that basically makes you pull 3 packs at once no matter what you do. Also LoS is broken against casters, AoE spells hitting you even if you are clearly outside the circle. A lot of this buggy and random behavior makes you hate these completely.

Oh, also, fell through the floor in the water delve, effectively wasting a life because… why not. And double jump sometimes forward, sometimes backward, regardless the direction you are moving. Seriously, wth is this?!

1 Like

you pull velo / telo separately . thats the trick /4 told me and we facerolled them with this.

what i noticed is that for bosses its best to swap brann from dps to heal spec if you solo as dps.

It’s possible to kill them even on dual poo (war adds minimal challenge as difference between melee/spell abilities is huge), it does not change the fact that smth look off here. Given that sometimes they spawn one on top of another (literally at the same spot) and don’t split at all (or at least don’t split in ~15 minutes I was looking) an ability to pull them one by one is either a bug or a really stange feature wich may require you to wait for a good chunk of an hour before random walking sepparates them far enough.

Upd:
Oh. Read the patchnotes.

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24134803/hotfixes-september-12-2024

Developers' notes: Our goal is to match the difficulty of solo and group play as much as possible in Delves. When looking at data on group delves, we noticed unexpectedly low combat times coupled with unexpectedly high lethality. We identified the root cause of this issue and corrected it. This fix will increase the health scaling of enemies per additional player present, but we are also reducing the damage scaling of many abilities to compensate.

Given yesterday tests, that grouping up reduces damage monster deal

https://www.wowhead.com/news/sloot-tests-delve-scaling-two-player-delves-have-less-health-and-deal-less-346637

this looks really strange. Does grouping reduce damage done even more now? Has somebody testsed it?

Overall, looks like damage/hp numbers are indeed off and untested. I hardly see why you should expect that group of two players will kill monster with half as many health in the same time as a solo player kills a full-health one (probably some time lost on chat between pulls?-)). It looks really really bad. A new pillar content which was selling expansion at least to this gnome should not be treated/tested like this.

what they mean - we … up - we were meant to make them health sponges but they upped dmg too :slight_smile:

So, in reality they upped the damage as well? Good patchnotes 10/10.

one cast of venompsite poinson going thoguh does liek 4mln dmg plus dot.

gl clearing this without really coordinated gorup :slight_smile:

and solo ? well you gotta kill him before 2nd cast happens or as caster you dead man :slight_smile:

1 Like

In a group you can kick two casts at least=)

Haven’t tested and don’t want to test it in tiers past 8, but in solo, at least as warlock you can afford three casts. One kicked and you can barely take two on defensive cds (would be 4 if only Brann had brain).

If you can’t kill him in 30 seconds which is about the time three casts happened, you are dead anyay, due to shield mechanic.

Other heralds look strange as well. Ex. nerubian with a huge pack including oracle heal.
He can spam heals nonstop and you, basically, need to burst him in a single kick cd through 3 bugs who cast damage reducing shields. It’s possible, but looks like it was not well thought through.

And in the end you will get smth like 2g loot for these efforts. Thank you, but no. Invis pots are better-)

Upd:
Writing here as I can’t create a new post before somebody answers.

From my experience on all bosese except Waxface DD Brann is better.
Most of the bosses deal close to zero damage outside avoidable aoes.
Ab’enar is a caster and bonus kicks from DD Brann + shorter fight length is better than healing, he doesn’t heal good enough to make it sustainable.
If I need healing, I just give a relic that heals you on CD usage to DD Brann.

I am a destruction warlock and for me it seems like almost impossible to do them solo, in item lvl 590 but tried yesterday and the day before the whole day to solve the delves. But it’s like not achievable all my friends say it’s easy just gotta kick them… and here is the point as destruction warlock I don’t have a kick becuze I need my voidwalker in order to take Aggro and don’t let me getting one shot. Just so annoying that Bran can’t take tank. Don’t know why they give a ahit about casters… hate it. I’m about to quit the game

2 Likes

Most of the monsters are controllable. I’m not telling that I like the design (there should not be so much interrupt requirements), but as a warlock, you can mortal coil to interrupt the cast. Once you are more familiar with encounter, you can even fear for interrupt (it’s harder due to cast time). On heralds and Ab’enar, two encounters where you absolutely need kicks I just eat the dog. Most of the damage is aoe there, anyway.

I think this fact will be the greatest impediment to delves becoming a relevant way of gearing your character for anyone in a few weeks. You have to go to other content for the upgrade crests, but that content will also gear you better so most players will leave delves behind for gearing altogether very shortly.

Yes! That is putting focus directly on a crucial design flaw. You cannot take the flex raid design philosophy all the way down to one player.

For challenging solo content, you must match that content to that player’s spellbook. I am guessing that is completely absent from the delve design so a lot of players will find that they just don’t have the spellbook to deal with the content.

1 Like

@Klastos thank you for taking the time to write this…

My objective in TWW was to experience Delves and play as chilled and relaxed a game as possible. My main healer will continue to do group stuff, but the alt army will tackle the Delve prog and achievements.

I like being able to approach this at my own speed – hence going solo and I won’t create groups unless I’m unable to do the achievements without them. (I hope not).

I think there has been too much noise – this first week of season 1 – about anything that isn’t possible to speed through and finish top level stuff. Personally I hope that Blizz continue to pay some attention to the non 12 hour per day players, to the older players whose mouse and kbd skills have slowed down, to the accessibility needs of these and other players.

The hardest thing for me is to fight the FOMO and stay on track with ones own objectives amongst the very loud noise about needing to be ilvl 603 this week (for example).

Generally, I think there needed to be far more side quests (enough to level one toon through one area without the extra delve, dungeon, world quests, repeating the story line). Sorry that’s off topic, but relates.

I honestly don’t care about the group players response to Delves (sorry don’t mean to be rude), but I would like some more interesting drops too.

My solo T8 experience can be summarized like this:

  • Solo as a healer was slow and tedious, but easy. Now that Brann has been nerfed (undocumented change, he does less damage per level unless you use a workaround) it is more tedious even.

  • Solo as a caster was faster, but more frustrating because Brann is a really poor healer, there is no tank option, and now his damage is lower (unless you use a workaround while it still works). The main issue is how hard melee mobs hit and that they are sponges.

My conclusion is that I’ll just do them in a group with friends. It’s more than twice as fast, more social, and by far the easiest option.

1 Like

His aoe resistance also looks lower since yesterday. He was close to immortal and for the last two days he spends big chank of time laying on the floor in T11. I believe this changes are deserved, as many delves could be cheesed using him as close to immortal tank with high damage. Pretty often you could just unleash him and damage boss safely outside of arena.

There were other changes for example casters in general do less damage now.

And this is what really bugs me. I don’t understand why devs decided to hide the updates they are doing, if they don’t want to admit the problems and hope for “hidden” fixes to solve them than it’s really strange. Wowhead exists and people reverse engineer the changes, it only make things look worse. Any changes done should be in the notes for the hotfix, that’s why we have them.

Overall from my experience during the weekend after all the tweeks T8s for solo are in ok space, more on boring side this weekend. After their state on Friday, the feeling that you can pool multiple packs and even don’t pay too much attention to it is a strange one.

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