Demon Hunter and Race Options

Community General Discussion
1

With the new class/race combos, I’d like to bring back this one again.

Demon Hunter only being available to two races is something that has overstayed its welcome. The class on a lore-base has lost much of its purpose due to lack of attempts at justifying their existence, beyond chasing the Legion around.

But there are plenty of reasons to keep demon hunters around and more important yet, to expand the races available for playing this class.

Post Legion

The Illidari were successful. Their leader rose beyond all expectations and devoted himself eternally to guardwatch the mad titan, Sargeras. Time to pack up? Well, no. There's a lot of peripheral tasks left for the Illidari, even after the events of the Legion. Also, demons as a breed of evil, will never truly go away. Their spirit returns to the Twisting Nether to eventually, be reborn anew.

There will always be demons to hunt.
Furthermore, the skills of the Demon Hunters can be applied, anywhere you might imagine a soldier or mercenary. They have every bit as much of a reason to exist as your warrior, druid, mage etc. The name of their class refers to a specific history and some facts about how their acquired their power. it does not limit them to a singular purpose.

Who can be a Demon Hunter?

Post-legion, this question should be raised again. There was an argument to be made for them going away indefinitely after the raiding of The Black Temple, but Legion brought them back and a couple of reality checks had to be made for the Illidari.

1: Their numbers have been reduced dramatically and continued to deplete with the latest invasion
2: They had to recruit more soldiers and even create new Demon Hunters (As seen with the trainers in their base of operation i.e. class order hall adepts)
3: Their leader resigned from his post as the chief of operation, leaving it, to a faceless, nameless hero.

A lot of elves may have considered pursuing the path of the Demon Hunter once more, seeing them fighting amongst the Horde and Alliance. The question of “greater evil” became relevant again. More importantly, it wasn’t just the elves.

What initially kept the Illidari an exclusives club, has long since passed. The cosmic and cataclysmic threats azeroth seems to face on a bi-yearly basis is something that a demon hunter can be applied to, perfectly.

So who? Anyone. Literally, any race that is sentient, physically and mentally capable of withstanding the transformation.

Sunk Cost REALITY

Now this is an argument I'm not super happy to make, but it's imo a valid point nonetheless. We have seen Death Knights being opened up to all races. I honestly believe this was the final nail in the coffin for the counter-argument. The idea was that you'd willingly give up what makes you, you. To change your very existence, for the greater good. If this logic allowed for death knights across the board, so can Demon Hunters be implemented for all. Even if this isn't a tasteful way to do so, it can still be done with some more effort and in a way that respects the lore: Which brings us to

Who'd make for the most ideal candidates?

This one is relatively simple, but let me just get the elves out of the way first.
Nightborne and Void/high elves do not necessarily come first. In fact I’d argue Draenei and Orcs have a higher priority.

Nightborne were isolated in a bubble since the shattering (10 k years ago) and their first real exposure to the rest of the world, was by being enslaved and forcibly turned into demons. Their history with the Legion is indirect and much more brief than Orcs and Draenei.

Void/High Elves - High Elf is a political distinction in the lore. Think of them as left and belf right-wing (don’t read too hard into that, please) it is to say that they are opposites. I don’t think they are good candidates over Draenei/Orc seeing that they had the option during TBC, but chose not to. Void Elves are already heavily mutated/altered by old god juice. There’s a real chance that they shouldn’t be eligible for any further, dramatic mutations. This was actually also an argument against void elf dk’s, but here we are.

Orcs/Draenei: These guys have put up with the legion in two different realities/timelines.
The most recent Legion invasion put the holy light’s role into a new perspective. Evil is not defined by the nature of the power you wield. We saw this emphasized in the Argus cutscene with Illidan and it was once again, further emphasized in the Mag’har recruitment questline with fuhrer Yrel and her zealous crusade.

If there was ever a time for Demon Hunters to find viable candidates, post-legion would be it. Orcs and Draenei alike have seen that Demon Hunters can be a force for the greater good and has no reason to believe that the Illidari is anything, but a faction with mutual interests, aligning with the Horde and Alliance.

Mag’har Orcs/Azeroth Orcs ought to be able to become Demon Hunters
Draenei have lived for too long under the pursuit of others. They also witnessed that the light does not necessarily make for a righteous individual as proven by the lightforged.
Draenei

Hearthstone seems to take more creative liberties than WoW does nowadays, which some time back, produced, Karnuk: An Orc Demon Hunter. Formerly a shaman/Priest like character who joined an illidari adept to fend off the rusted legion - A sort of mad max take on the legion. He’s even got official art of him that can provide a good example of what an Orc Demon Hunter can (and should) look like.

The Gameplay/customization angle

Demon Hunter is pretty much my favorite class, but it is only available to my least favorite race, blood elf. I'm sure many can relate. This is really annoying when you don't wanna play the opposite faction for a more ideal aesthetic or if you flat out dislike both available options.

Further arguments

WoW have plenty of individuals that would do horrible things to attain power: Even to a point of sacrifice their very being. We already have Warlocks, Shadow Priests and willfully turned Death Knights to prove this.

It’s simply contrarian to maintain a disposition that prevents further race options for this class. Why? because it hasn’t been true since TBC. Remember, Blood Elves weren’t welcomed to be trained as Demon Hunters either, until TBC occurred. Illidan’s path of logic also ceased to make sense as of Black Temple. He became Sargeras, remember? Leading his own army of Demons. Black Temple wasn’t exactly shy of demon inhabitants. Nor were they kept shut away for the non-demons to see.

Upon resigning as the effective leader of the Illidari, you can even tell that he has let go of his cemented beliefs of the past, if you pick Altruis. He disagrees with your choice, but does not disapprove.

Conclusion

From a lore standpoint you can easily justify it, even non-elf options
From a gameplay standpoint we are many that would appreciate further race options, especially non-elf. Personally, I really don’t even mind gnome demon hunters or other more silly races. The contrast is welcome as far as I’m concerned. I’d say, start with Orc and Draenei and then consider other options after.
Counter-arguments may point to the disastrous history for draenei and orcs in relation to the legion. I say, there’s plenty of opportunities to write new lore in which they master the power of the enemy and enforce it for the greater good.

Resources

I can't do links, but fill in the blanks and the following takes you to a variety of art based on the idea of these two races being demon hunters.

tps://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/orc-and-draenei-demon-hunters-please/176710

tps://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/projects/404/3ba89d40174951.Y3JvcCwyMDAwLDE1NjIsMCwyNzE.jpg

ttps://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hearthstone_gamepedia/images/f/fc/Karnuk%2C_Demon_Hunter_full.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20200815074409

ttps://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/4f735bc9-454a-432b-b9e8-848e4f757bde/d9qu8cg-c4529b11-f469-4a9a-949b-5158d60caef1.jpg/v1/fill/w_1280,h_829,q_75,strp/orc_demon_hunter_by_mydeads-d9qu8cg.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi80ZjczNWJjOS00NTRhLTQzMmItYjllOC04NDhlNGY3NTdiZGUvZDlxdThjZy1jNDUyOWIxMS1mNDY5LTRhOWEtOTQ5Yi01MTU4ZDYwY2FlZjEuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEyODAiLCJoZWlnaHQiOiI8PTgyOSJ9XV19.yBW5N6A-ff4y-7FWLHLMZCdUkdDGUZ3HHXTx9b-JXME

ttps://www.artstation.com/artwork/eJPE06

ttps://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/7b9f696e-2363-4219-aca7-b5a906d845f0/daj1dr7-dc614216-40e5-4983-85d3-0adbad537df2.jpg/v1/fill/w_1024,h_1583,q_75,strp/orc_demon_hunter_by_savvybanani_daj1dr7-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MTU4MyIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzdiOWY2OTZlLTIzNjMtNDIxOS1hY2E3LWI1YTkwNmQ4NDVmMFwvZGFqMWRyNy1kYzYxNDIxNi00MGU1LTQ5ODMtODVkMy0wYWRiYWQ1MzdkZjIuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTEwMjQifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.YkvGccrBI9FvN2pevxLhcKfYD4fDazT1Gsc8Ji6YBrM

(htps://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/046fadcd-97d3-4542-ad11-a1f9f8e0c164/d96hc0q-dc21971b-db19-4798-9a3e-1e811c542b10.jpg/v1/fill/w_1600,h_944,q_75,strp/dark_elf_lady_demon_hunter_by_birdman03-d96hc0q.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi8wNDZmYWRjZC05N2QzLTQ1NDItYWQxMS1hMWY5ZjhlMGMxNjQvZDk2aGMwcS1kYzIxOTcxYi1kYjE5LTQ3OTgtOWEzZS0xZTgxMWM1NDJiMTAuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTE2MDAiLCJoZWlnaHQiOiI8PTk0NCJ9XV19.FJ3OjaYZs4z1BhG2WVPPnKSqF9galFqtWbG4j144YLk

ttps://i.imgur.com/AjTqt6Q.png)

3 Likes
2

Draenei demon hunters… where do I sign?

2 Likes
3

No, because Lore.

1 Like
4

They already said they will make all classes available to all races. Will just take time.

3 Likes
5

Yeah you are right. I forgot about that. In that case I’d like to push this one forward as a priority considering DH has the least amount of options out of any class in the game.

1 Like
6

Please no, let things be special and have rules, Death Knights for example have been gutted beyond redemption at this point for example.

Latest Holinka statements about class/race combos are detrimental and I’m sure they don’t quite know it and will regret it at some point when races are merely a skin for classes, as it dilutes and homogenizes the elements that built the game in the first place.

2 Likes
7

Out of interest - Do you disagree with the points I raised?
The game’s class/race synergy already suffered severe dilution. We have tauren priests and paladins, Orc priests, Undead hunters, Death Knight everything, Monk (literally the whole class is a big clown class) and more.

8

I personally like the idea of giving every class to every race.

We already have race/classes that make no sense in lore.

I think wow might be taking notes from FF and I like it. :smile:

3 Likes
9

Two wrongs doesn’t make a right.

First they made a generic starting zone for all races that differs very slightly for each faction alongside some personalization options that inserts a group identity on a race that didn’t had the group identity in the first place just because they are the same race (High elves on Void elves, Wildhammer dwarves on Bronzebeard dwarves, Sandfury trolls on Darkspear trolls, etc…), then they just gave every Allied Race Death Knights without any quality introduction or depth to it nor any sense regarding the origins and folklore of some of said races, then they made generic level 1 armor sets for each class disregarding the race’s identity, basically every race has human armor when created, etc, etc, etc…

I know some people don’t value this, but the dev team has been slowly scratching things that made races unique, and they might even erase all racials at some point, which is in line with all of this and would be another big mistake.

Basically, races shouldn’t be skins for classes (but the opposite might be interesting as it already has a restriction to it), as it takes away elements that are important for the thematic of the game and just makes it homogenous and generic.

Also, Final Fantasy XIV is not World of Warcraft. The importance of races in the setting is much heavier in WoW than in FFXIV. Being careless about this could only be justified out of one of two things: Lazyness or cheapening. It’s easier to not create things for each race and just blend things or doing recolors of already existing assets, and the most recently added content has shown us recolors and reskins for races, armor, a mount, and some of them disregarding the theme of the race or even the class, like the Blood elf spear, being available to any race that can wield it, even in the Alliance, when there’s weapon appearances from Exile’s Reach that have this restriction.

Dark Ranger skins being available to all classes and the Dark Ranger set (which is a recolor) being available to every race as long as they are hunters is a very big sign of this. It’s cheap, lazy, and careless and dilutes the meaning it has to just be a skin as if it Fortnite.

At least the Blood Knight armor (a recolor of an Antorus plate set which lacks proper detail by it’s own merits of merely being a recolor) is restricted to Blood elf Paladins, but by the result of the previous point, now there’s the possibility to do an undead Blood elf Blood Knight that has normal Blood elf racials, and, as I said, two wrongs doesn’t make a right, and I’m certain that the devs themselves will regret these decisions at some point in the future, as they already did with other additions that were put without proper consideration and restriction (flying is a big and easy example).

I ended up with a long post, but I hope I made clear from where I come from.

4 Likes
10

If dwarves get druid class in DF, can we get dwarf face instead of animal faces in our shapeshifting forms?

4 Likes
11

Absolutely yes.

2 Likes
12

Yeah I get what you are saying. In fact I mostly agree with you.
Orc and Draenei Demon Hunters DO make sense from a lore standpoint though.
If anything, it makes no sense that those races haven’t asked themselves how they can join Illidan in the same way Night Elves did. They’ve experienced loss on an equally horrific level. The elves lost their home, but the orcs and draenei lost their homeworld.

So even if we stick to lore reasoning, I think I’m not in the wrong for suggesting those two races for this class.

1 Like
13

please no no no no

2 Likes
14

imagine nelf and belf that sacrificed everything and now all the new races incomin with no need to do anything.
a pity.

2 Likes
15

for what they need ask how to join to servant of burning crusade?

16

Look around, lore threw out of window ages ago

17
  • They made DK available to all races in SL, a death themed expansion, so you need a demon themed expansion for the story to need new DHs.
  • I hear they want to make more races available for classes, but since DHs require resources like new animations and new Metamorphosis models I believe they’d address the less resource demanding classes first.
18

I think you are right, unfortunately.

19

Yeah,so lets make the lore a total mess now. Or even better - who needs lore when you can be Mechagnome DH ?
Total nonesence…

1 Like
20

Some races can be justified like Orcs and Draenei. I don’t think anyone’s putting in their vote for mechagnomes, but at the end of the day, I don’t see why you can’t make up lore for it unless you are opposed to how the game has been designed for the past 10 years (holy cows and gnomes)