Duels are significant for PvP how? It’s such a stilted environment, people only duel when they have everything ready. In that regard, they’re more like Arenas, and like Arenas, 2v2 has no real significance for balance.
Mortal Rush leaves you out of position which can make or break a kill. Also, due to the CD of MS, it can only practically be on two targets at the same time. There’ll be a small time frame where it falls off one of them. This can be doubled if the Warrior used Sweeping Strikes, except they’ve extremely limited control over who takes the second hit. Ferals need to produce CP to apply it, which is their time limit. They also both need direct melee range. The range of Blade Dance from the is target is what? 10 yards.
Stop looking at what other Classes have when there’s no direct 1-to-1 comparison and start looking at what you have instead. If you always compare like that you’ll never be happy.
Glaive Toss and Heroic Throw are 1-to-1 as they serve the same purpose, except GT is vastly superior to HT.
I have to admit you’re right about this. And I have that stupid habit of always comparing instead of focusing a little more on my class/spec. I just think that this spec has elementary flaws and that, for example, without The Hunt and Soulshape we would get an incomplete spec again. Most other classes/specs, if you take away their covenant, they will still be fully functional and certainly more complete than havoc, and I say that from personal experience because I play a lot of classes and that’s where the stupid habit of comparing comes from. That’s what worries me when I think of havoc.
But it is what it is, we need to work with what we have and definitely stop comparing ourselves to others.
I meant 2v2 and 3v3 not duels 1v1 but either way DH have only 1 DPS speck and it’s at the very bottom. In top-200 3v3 we have one DH. In top-200 2v2 we have two. In top-1000 3v3 we have 8 which is 0.8% and in top-1000 2v2 we have 8 - also 0.8% representation.
Would you call those numbers a sign of well balanced class given that we have 12 classes in total?
My point was that is in large scale 10v 10 8v8 fight as melee you do not want to in the face of enemy team every 5 seconds to reapply MS or you’ll become a focus target in no time it might be much safer to rush in and disengage with Vangaful Retreat and have MS for 10 seconds.
I can’t all classes balanced for raid to have similar DPS so it comes to special tools, heals burst windows and defensives as deciding factor in PvP.
You example is incorrect yes both have same purpose in PvP - keep enemy in combat to prevent restealth and healers from drinking but glave toss also can unintentionally break soft CC like imprison with it’s ricochet.
If you compare Warrior PvP kit vs. DH. You find out that DH lacking so many tools Warrior have like Baseline MS, baseline Slow (mobility denial equals mobility in PvP), Ability to convert Resource into defensive when needed (Ignore pain), on demand 20% DR, Shattering Throw, Spell Reflect, Ranged saves for allies (Rallying Cry, intervene), CC reduction (banner), multiple viable covenants for PvP, undispellable stun.
DH have couple unique tools like reverse magic, and mana rift but even those getting pruned in 9.1.
Class representation on the ladder speaks for itself. Just count the Warriors then DH (you can probably use your fingers for the latter).
Im just wondering why melees are getting so much love and broken mechanics despite being super broken already. Doesnt every melee have a ms now? Combined with the insane burst and cc, there is no way ppl will be willing to play healers. So far the next season looks like even worse clown fiesta than s1 tbh.
This is actually a nerf. All DH use UBC in pvp and Mortal Rush had 100% uptime. Also fel rush is uncapped so you apply MW to an entire raid in BGs with 2 charges. Small radius so you’ll be hitting less targets, and pets will be factored into the cap now. Also blade dance is lower on the priority list than UBC, so now MW won’t be applied at the beginning of combat anymore. Also fel rush requires no fury, so another disadvantage for mortal dance. Also now the talent is worthless unless you take First Blood talent.
Blizzard is really obsessed with nerfing this class.
With my pvp vers gear my Blade Dance cd is 8.2 seconds. So we’re going from 100% to 60% uptime on MW and some people actually think this is a buff. That’s a 40% nerf. Not to mention it makes the gameplay less interesting.
And that’s a problem of DH lacking those tools instead of a problem of DH lacking those tools in comparison to Warriors. If that’s what you focus on then it’s just come down to an argument you’ll lose.
Other than Warriors, Rogues, and WW Monks no one has a base MS effect. And Rogues give up utility to use theirs and Monks’ have an opportunity cost. What makes the Warrior MS so special is that it has none of those things associated with it.
Warriors might have a baseline slow, however, they have no baseline stun. The “undispellable stun” is a talent. Chaos Nova is baseline and AoE. It’s objectively better than the talent one Warriors have even though the latter is easier to use. If you want to use “baseline” as an argument Glaive Throw should apply a 50% snare to two people if it hits someone within 5-yards of the DH and Master of the Glaive should extend this to the entire range.
The IP thing is an effect of Warriors have no other defensive baseline. Solo, it does little and when a healer gets involved it becomes one of the best defensives in the game as it can give them more time to get that heal off.
DHs also have a ranged save for allies, Darkness, however, this is unwieldy and effectively tethering yourself if you want to make use of it. This is the same issue as War Banner has, except WB has a greater range. Darkness should be tethered to the DH and follow them around.
Your post is unconstructive as it lacks nuance and proposes nothing. It’s just a “the grass is greener on the other side of the fence!”-type post and can thus easily, and most likely will be, completely disregarded.
Since you intentionally decided to ignore many important facts presented in my previous post and instead decided to start nitpicking where you can - I see no point in further discussion.
The fact is -Warriors have about 10% representation on leaderboards while DH less then 1% while filling the same role it’s daylight clear that one class is undertuned by a large margin compared to the other.
Literally this. The whole purpose of this spec is dmg and mobility, no utility no tools, nothing useful for team play. Obviously it’s designed to be a dps bot that’s fun to play, and that’s totally ok, but then I wonder why there’s no baseline slow. This is the only melee spec that does not have a snare as a baseline, which is totally stupid, especially considering the design and purpose of this spec.
The rest is nothing I would consider worth discussing. I do consider the things I pointed out worth discussing since they’re based on factually wrong information. You made it sound like the Warrior stun was baseline, it’s a talent while complaining that DH had to spec into a slow, which is correct. However, Warriors have to spec into the stun.
It’s the same nature and reverse in the application.
That Warriors are overrepresented has nothing to do with SH being underrepresented. You seem to think it’s a zero-sum game where one class is buffed and another is nerfed to make up for that buff.
In the case of Warriors it’s that the utility they have are almost worthless when alone and becomes better the more people there are, meanwhile, DHs are the reverse. They actually do have useful utility when solo that becomes worthless in a group. Darkness is good solo and worthless in a group unless you have the niche situation of people being stacked together.
