Demonology and corruption/Azerite gear/essences procs

On top of all previous Demonology problems in our very core gameplay desing, we have dire problem that could leave us in the outsiders to the end of BFA - it is procs of corrupted gear and azerite items.

As many of you know, we - demo warlocks do not have any DoT damage in our toolkit, not baseline, not in our talents. We have doom, but it ticks one time and absolutely unreliable.

Our demons cannot proc our effects of corrupted gear and Azerite gear/essences. This leaves us behind in proc rate in every encounter possible, this especially bad in PvP, where our uptime is extremely low compared to other classes.

As an example, i took one peace of corrupted gear with Twilight devastation effect, the results was after 2 minutes of damaging the dummy.

Twilight devastation proc only two times. In that period of time…

Shadowbolt was casted 60 times - 1.2 sec of cast time (Pleasure trough pain PvP talent)

Wild imps casted fel firebolt 378 times - 1.7 Cast time

Hand of Gul’Dan was casted 27 times - 1.2 Cast time

My Shivarra used lash of pain 28 times - instant.

Demonbolt was casted 13 times - instant.

Second time results was slightly better - Twilight devastation proc 3 times.

In same timeframe in destro i was able to summon Twilight devastation 7 times on my first try, and 13 on my second.

Now we should look at demonology spells that can proc Corruption/AZ gear/Essences effects, for demo it is.

  • Shadowbolt.

  • Demonbolt.

  • Hand of Gul’Dan.

  • Bilescourge bombers - can proc Essences DoTs like ancient flame, but cannot proc any corruption effect at all.

  • Implosion - still cannot figure it out after all tests.

Rest of our spells does not proc anything.

Classes with alot of instant spells/abilities DoTs can melt people down with ease, while demo if forced to hardcast every spell, and pick some azerite essences to counter inability to proc.

For example, you can pick “Cruicible of flame” Azerite essence, and use DoT effects from Major and minor effects to proc other Azerite gear/essences or corruption effects. And yes, with that essence we have a way to proc things a little easier, but, other classes already have their instants or DoTs to proc thing up, and “Cruicible of flame” is just a nice addition to the toolkit.

UPD#1
So, if any of you think that current situation is fine, then let’s take a look at our basic rotation and see how mant times per secon we have opportunity to activate any of Corruption or azerite effect. And befor we start, for now we would take basic cast time, without concideration of haste, and after that i will compare it to my char with my stats, with and without “pleasure trough pain” talent.

  • We summon dreadstalkers - 2 secons cast time / 1.6 with my haste
  • We cast 2 shadowbolts - 2 seconds cast time each / 1.6 with my haste / 1.2 with “pleasure trough pain” talent.
  • We cast hand of Gul’Dan - 1.5 second cast time / 1.2 with my haste.

So basicly we have one chance per 1.6 secons to activate our effects in general. Only during preparation state where we have several staks of Demonic core, and we chain HoG->DB->HoG->DB->HoG our chance to activate effect per second rises slightly.

While other classes have DoT’s/Autoattacks/instacasts and ETC that could make their chance to activate effects more then once per second.

Alright, maybe of imps could proc our corruption effect was a bad idea…it would be extremely OP. But in order to keep demo powerlevel in reasonable borders yet still allow demo to be more viable, blizzard should allow our main demon to activate procs and corruotions. Since Fel/wrathguard succubus/shivarra, felhunter/observer have similar attack speed, balance won’t be an issue.

UPD2 - Chat with support.
Well i won’t copy paste all my conversation with support, but Agent has informed me that Blizz know about issue.
Well thats good thing that they are know about it, question is, are they willing to do something about it or not?

Again demonology is still the worst spec possible unfortunately :confused:

1 Like

Idea is good, even if i’m not the fan. But damn this implementation… mistakes on the every possible level of game design.

Yes for sure but I noticed since the beginning, every insane items like trinkets doesn’t proc from our pet’s dmg and same with corruption.

We got already little dmg and this doesn’t help is to be competitive in pve and pvp :confused:

I know everyone hated empower demon in legion but atleast demo did more dmg with that in pve ofc.kinda miss it. But mop metamorphisis was the best

Should have been a 1 or 2 minute cooldown lol

Not in legion, our demons was significantly underpowered in their normal state, and empower was the only way to make something useful out of them. Hmm even now, with “normalised” damage across all our demons, their damage is extremely low in comparison to Unholy or BM

3 Likes

I remember stacking 73% mastery and 68% and demons did so much damage, I think empower demon should be a CD and they deal dmg depending on your mastery so if u got like 45% they deal same amount 45% more dmg, sound like a good idea actually

1 Like

Yes and no. We technically already have something similar to it, namely Demonic Tyrant (without demonic consumption talent.) Tyrant gives you and all your demons a 15% dmg increase.

However, it simply shows how clunky and annoying that gameplay is, as you have to set it up each and every time.
So the issue isn’t necessarily the amount of damage the demons do per se, but how “effective” they are. In it’s current form imps only deal damage and occasionaly provide a procc of molten core. If imps contributed in a more meaningful way, such as they did when we had the Demonic Fury resource, then it would be fine for them to deal a low amount of damage.
Another factor here is that they aren’t cooldown related. Meaning you have to have as many out as possible in order to do a modicum of useful damage. So their damage HAS to be relatively low, otherwise it wouldn’t be wothwhile to do anything else besides summoning imps.

All in all, this design ensures that we have terrible on demand burst, and our “major cooldown” has such a low cooldown that our normal rotation suffers from compensating for our major cooldown damage.

If demo is supposed to be a “summoner” class, i would rather focus on the quality of the demons under my command rather on their quantity. Like instead of large army of imps, i would rather have small group of reliable and usefull demons.
Personaly i was happy with the desing and ideas behind Vanila/TBC/WotLK demonology, when you and your demon empowered eachother and it was like deadly dynamic duo. And of course i love gameplay of MoP/WoD demo, it was the pinnacle of gameplay that was supported by good lore, visuals, and was viable in both PvE and PvP.
And also, i has added UPD2 to the main post here.

Implosion has a chance to proc per imp used IIRC. This is why an EP build has a much higher proc rate.

After an hour of testing implosion for me didn’t get the proc of corruption or Azerite gear/essences.
I tested implosion this way, i has removed all Azerite traits exept “Breath of the dying R3” in minor slot, after that i casted HoG on the three manequins, waited till all my imps are spawned, and double checked that HoG didn’t proced anything, and only after that, i casted the implosion itself, and results was sad - no procs from implosion from imps, but all procs that i had was caused by HoG. After that i did one small test, but with full azerite essences set up, and even then no effect was proced by implosion exept buff from conflict and strife, but still no damage effects or Corruption effects.

I’ve just tested it and I’m getting procs from weapon enchant, weapon corruption and azerite. I only tested it for a few minutes. 7x 3 shard Implosions.

Strange i didn’t got any of my corruption. Can you test it without Azerites like ancient flame and etc, because these DoTs could proc corruption.

I took off Breath minor and Implosion is still proc’ing those things.

Try again on a tank dummy. I know that IS doesn’t proc on a standard dummy, not sure about other offensive corruptions.

oh my god just imagining touch of chaos spam bursting someone in meta with on-use trinket and all these corruption/essence procs makes me even more depressed that this garbage is current demonology

Demo had the same problem with benthic gear , had no doubt that they wouldn’t fix with corruptions and sadly i don’t think they ever will , but hey 5% DMG buff next reset XD.

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