Deserter after dungeon kick

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
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Blizzard,

Seriously, for how long are you going to treat your customers like crap? Don’t you understand that this system is so stupid that it’s being abused by some idiots who can’t care less and don’t respect other’s time? Seriously, getting kicked from a twilight dungeon because I had the audacity to say that they didn’t switch to the Mana Void so we can replenish our mana, and now I have to sit 30 minutes on my own time, instead of relaxing and playing the game THAT I PAY YOU for? How is this ok with you? I just, don’t understand, there’s lots of people complaining about this, yet you can’t find a simple solution to this? OMG Blizzard, do you not care for your customers one bit? How can it be so hard for you multi million dollar company to find a simpler yet better solution to this thing? How is it that hard for you to just implement the deserter debuff for ppl that just leave by them selves in the first 5 or 10 minutes of the dungeon for example, and disable it for ppl that get kicked by bums mid run, because they feel like it, or because the got offended by a simple question because they didn’t do the fing mechanics?

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Funnily enough that is the reason why it was put in place to prevent players from holding dungeons hostage to get off scott-free for a fast requeue.

They would simply not leave for the first 10 minutes.

Proposals so far include but not limited to:

  • “Just remove it” The darkest times will come back again
  • “Reduced cooldowns stacking upwards” so that if you aren’t kicked often, it starts with a minor debuff.
  • “Reduced cooldowns, stacking downwards” so if you’re in a “good” party, then when they surprisepikachu kick you at the end the cooldown is lower.
  • “Warning before Debuff” - When you get removed from dungeon you get a Warning but allows you to requeue, if you get kicked again you get debuffed on subsequent leaves.
  • “Add reporting for kicking” - This is akin FF where they investigate if someone is really, really using votekick so often and gets reported for it that often as well. WoW used to do this.

If you have a proper suggestion, you may submit it through the ingame feedback box. If it’s a new or better suggestion I may also add it to my list above :>

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I had a lot of cases telling people to switch to mana void and it was fine, you were just too unlucky. At least you explained these retards how it is supposed to work :face_holding_back_tears:

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Listen, I can understand for what this system has been put into the game. But, you also need to understand us too.

It’s not the first time people have abused this against me, or others pretty sure, I once got kicked from a Zul’aman dungeon because there was a good caster ring there that a SP also wanted and he had other 2 guildies with him in that group, so they just kicked me for that, I know because I whispered to ask what was the reasoning, and he just told me.

I think everyone in their right mind can say that this is not good, not fun and that it makes ppl like me mad and frustrated, because we want to play this game fairly and we even pay for it ofc. You must admit that sitting on the “bench” for 30 minutes because some dipsht decided he want an item that it may or may not possibly drop, or because he doesn’t do mechanics and gets told that he should do, is not ok. This is simply just a not ok system.

Sure it is ok for it’s original purpose but you can just tweak it a little bit so it serves his original purpose only, and not abusers. Think of it this way, many of us have families, responsibilities and thus, have just a small window to play our favorite game, and then an idiot comes and ruins everything for us. How would you feel about this?

You could do lots of things to it, just have something in there that can detect harassment, exploiting, abuse, have something that can see if the player who got kicked use using bad language, or if he wasn’t doing mechanics, because mechanics are actually impactful for the whole group and can lead to either finishing the dungeon or not and can ruin the experience for others if not done, have something in there that can detect if the person getting kicked was afk, or idk…or if the person getting kicked just got kicked for absolutely no reason then don’t give that person a deserter debuff and let him or her que to another dungeon, ques are already long as they are for DPS at least.

There are lots of things you could tweak to avoid situations where ppl get kicked just because. You can even use AI for God’s sake, AI these days has evolved enough where you could make use of it, and not just to upscale some textures, use it to your advantage, Blizzard please.

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Why hasn’t Blizzard used any solutions you suggested?

Guess what, they have, and none of them worked so far.

As long as people are able to A) kick others from group and B) Sit around doing nothing, none of your solutions would work, because those 2 options were most effective way to avoid deserter debuff, before you got it just by being kicked out.

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Whole deserter fiasko can be solved very simply, which is method nobody likes: Remove kick feature from the game, impliment automatic kick and deserter debuff for disconnecting in middle of a dungeon and FORCE people to either finish the dungeon or leave the group and wait for deserter debuff to wear off.

You might think solution is simple, but it isn’t.

As long as there would be a way to leave dungeon before it is anywhere near finished without getting a deserter debuff, people would use that method willy nilly.

Now deserter or something similar is required, if you think having to wait 30 minutes for being able to que for dungeons in a game you pay monthly subscription is too much, you have NO IDEA how long it took to finish dungeons which most players downright skipped as long as they could do it without getting deserter debuff (just to give you an idea, back in WoTLK, it was sometimes literally a miracle if heroic oculus took you only 9 hours to finish without having full pre-made guild group)

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Any plans to remove that worst mechanic in history of video games?

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I made suggestion about this topic in another similar thread, just going to rephrase it here:

On the one hand there are individual trolls who want to skip long instances like Deadmines heroic, so they start holding group hostage by ninja pulling, deliberately dying a lot, staying AFK e.t.c. and parties should have tool to kick and replace them. On top of that Trolls should be punished by not being able to requeue fast. This is why deserter debuff is in place.

On the other hand we have gatekeeping. Overgeared parties are feeling themselves entitled to kick any lower gear sub performing player because replacement is automatically found relatively fast. Blizzard set minimal ilvl to enter Cataclysm Heroic++ (protocol: twilight) to 535. That is only enough for 3 new instances, not modified versions of old instances with rainbow blobs mechanics on bosses, where 2 people in 535 ilvl mean wipe squad. Blizzard’s plan must had been that 380+ ilvl would boost low geared one, but instead we see gatekeeping left and right.

So my proposal are:

  • Keep minimal 353 ilvl for 3 new instances that are easy even in Twilight protocol.
  • Raise other Twilight protocol min ilvl to enter via LFD to 373.
  • Everyone who voted to kick player out should get deserter like debuff upon finishing instance as well. The replacement of kicked player should be found as usual and real trolls should be kicked out, however group must feel responsibility and pay the price for using power of vote as well.
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The minimal item level for Protocol Twilight and the 3 new instances is already 353, though (not sure what you mean with 535). Regular heroic is 329 and Infernos/Troll dungeons are 346. 353 is good enough for Twilight, it’s just that you need to know how to approach the bosses, the blob mechanic, how to make use of your given buff and play your class at the same time, which seems to be too much to ask for a significant part of the community.

With that said though, the blob mechanic doesn’t really work well during certain boss fights. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I prefered the Infernos to Twilights. I would have been completely fine with a health/damage increase and some buffs to compensate. Some of the current buffs could use a rework really, blue one is just boring gameplay, stacking haste buff is useless for some classes (but better for others ofc), green is lackluster for pretty much everyone (I play all 4 healing classes and don’t use it on a single one), and red is the only one I feel I wouldn’t change that much.

Edit: Oh, and speaking of the blob mechanic. Something that really grinds my gears is people going for the shadowed blob. The deep corruption debuff is extremely trivial in dungeons, and should pretty much never be the focus target. My guess is that people are mixing up the dark and shadowed blob. It’s so frequent that it should be expected at this point, which sucks for the flow of the run and can sometimes put a group in real trouble when you get a nasty combo and people go for the most trivial one.

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535 was obviously was a speedy typo because I got it right later in post. :wink:

I consider 353 too low for instances having blob mechanics on bosses because usually those are people partly in 377 PvP gear (meaning half of their secondary stats are missing) usually with bad trinkets, weak weapons and no set bonuses whatsoever. At least 3 new instanced give them secondary stats, better trinkets and chance to loot decent weapon and tier sets pieces. At ilvl 370+ they have the means to burst the blob in other twilight instances.

Shadowed blob is trivial unless you are healed by a druid, who relies on HotS.

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Fully agree on everything in this thread tbh.

It just keeps happening over and over again not only on new characters, but even on characters that perform quite well and are geared to a 380+ level.

Lots of times 2 guildies just vote to kick you or anyone else simple because you need an item that any of them need. It doesn’t matter if you’re geared or not, since the system only requires 3 votes to pass, you’ll get kicked.

Just went to one dungeon - got kicked at the last boss despite having the highest DPS of the party all way through. Since we were going quick, got a Deserter. Fine, waited 30 minutes doing quests, queued again, got into a dungeon with only the last boss to kill. Got immediately kicked for whatever reason - got a Deserted again. Great gaming experience, spent 1 whole hour locked out of the gameplay. A time well spent!

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Just got votekicked after getting a disconnect on 2nd boss in Blackrock Caverns. When I got back online a member of the group cursed at me in whispers and told me to check myself into an insane asylum. Probably top 3 most toxic encounters I’ve had in this game, lol.

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this feature is useless and normally used in the wrong way…

im playing a healer in heroics and protocols and if someone dies is always a healing problem when we all know a lot of mechanics are involved here… but it is always the healer problem… i have been kicked several times and to be honest never was a healing problem, but this support system is not caring about this…

it is frustrating and probably ll quit due this type of things… in the end we are playing an offline supported game

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rigth now asaas heroic rune protocol… 3 dps dying (without debuffs) in the lightning phase when u have to go inside the triangle… whos fault… healer… kick healer (aka me) another 30 mins penalty… great mechanism

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Edit 2: First of all, getting deserter from getting kicked is a bug. Just make that Jira before we progress with the discussion.

This is indeed a problem. It would be very helpful if you as a community representative did not reply in such a condescending tone even if the original post was not voiced in a very constructive manner.

I agree that there are problems with the suggested solutions, but I suggest we work towards addressing the issue in a better manner. I’m sure you’ve seen a lot and have a fair amount of frustration, but this is really about seeing user needs and translating them into something actionable for the developers.

  1. “Just remove it”
    There exists good reasons to have the system in place imho. None of the points brought up directly address this or rationalize it, however. It’s just “whataboutism” on both sides thus far.

2./3. Very hard to automate, but has potential. Should it be harder to kick a consistently good performer? Could this potentially exclude some players entirely? Is it possible to create a system that would be able to recognize over/under-performers?

  • Blizzard realistically won’t invest the time in the tech. People are losing in all the BGs from not playing the objectives and only some expansions have an incentive to play the objectives in certain BGs.

  1. Kicking is entirely subjective and vote-based. People that don’t understand the mechanics of a fight will frequently kick players based on the only metrics they understand (damage meters) when the group fails.

  2. This should be re-implemented in my opinion. With the amount of toxic behavior we’re seeing recently, over-using the vote kick functionality should be investigated. This is a particular problem in Europe where majority English, Russian, Spanish etc. groups abuse the vote kick system to remove “off-server” members.

edit: I’m sorry about the formatting. I can’t make sense of the mark-up used here

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who here plays bgs and hasn’t seen at least one guy bragging about afking the fight ?
Crimes against humanity are committed in wow bgs everyday…

AB 3 days ago, first fight, random firemaw priest complains about how the “whole team” was at LM and failed to take it (whole team=5, no healer), he was then sitting idle at the spawn area gate for 6-7 minutes, 18 minutes into the game (he had 200k damage 40k healing) and he blames everyone again for not being able to hold bases long enough even tho he did not guard or attack, i say that he was afk and point out his stats and responds “still afk man”, the game lasted 31 minutes, he never tried, i reported him like 5 times total nothing happened.

Is a kick the best solution? i have dozens of red flags (which make me decide if i should stay or leave), I’d just vote kick people for taking fall damage in EOTS, for example

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I think between a deserter and a kick should be a difference.
If only kicked once in a while = no debuff
deserter = always debuff.

Solved

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